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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 27, 2014 22:26:14 GMT -5
I want to see Randall redeemed and finally happy as much as anyone; HOW Pixar pulls it off does not matter nearly as much to me as the fact that they do that, period. While I would certainly enjoy seeing him do something heroic to earn the respect, at last, of other monsters, I'm not hung up on that being the only way that Pixar can pull it off. I am, however, pretty adamant that if there IS a sequel, and Randall IS in it, if he's shown free of scars or injuries, this will "cheapen" what happen to him as well as render a lot of our defense of him invalid. We can't say, "it was a horrible thing that Mike and Sulley did because Randall was hurt far worse than they ever were" if that is not the case. I've dealt with the people who brush off what happened to Randall as trivial, no big deal-"he'll just walk it off", "it isn't any different than Wile E. Coyote falling over a cliff or Daffy Duck getting shot point-blank", and of course, "he can just use his invisibility to get away before he gets hurt", for years now. There are a lot of fans, including those who claim to be Randall's fans, who STILL find that scene FUNNY, not disturbing or wrong in any way, and a big part of THEIR argument is that they do not believe Randall was hurt or in any actual danger at that point in the context of the movie's plot. Seeing him show up later, free of any lasting effects of that beating, physical or otherwise, will simply confirm that this scene was played for laughs, nothing more, and vindicate those who think that Randall is no more than a CGI scaly version of Wile E. Coyote. I'm not saying that he's got to show up in the next MI movie all covered in horrible scars like Freddy Krueger or drooling all over himself, but there does need to be some obvious and lasting and unpleasant reminder of what he went through. There are a lot of people who feel no sympathy for Randall now. They do not believe that he suffered any injuries and therefore experienced insufficient punishment. Now, there will always be those who don't think he could EVER suffer enough to make up for what he did, in their perception, but there seems to be enough who are still "on the fence", who don't hate Randall outright but who do believe he deserves to be punished. Those people are the "target audience" who need to be convinced and be made to feel that sympathy, to realize that Randall's suffering outweighed his wrong-doing and that he did indeed become a victim himself. If he is unhurt, those folks aren't going to be convinced of that. A lot of fans will be anticipating that should Randall return, he's going to rely on his invisibility to accomplish something, good or bad, and for them, him using that ability is going to be a "cop out", as we used to say in the '70's. But what if he no longer has that ability, or cannot control it well enough to use it when he needs it now, and has to rely on some other means, "think outside the box", or team up with someone else? I'm putting that idea out there for consideration, because at this point we don't know for sure that there will be a sequel, or that Randall will be in it, or that Pixar will use a conventional plot to help him redeem himself. MU certainly had quite a plot twist and went against the grain of traditional endings for an animated movie, after all.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 26, 2014 14:24:10 GMT -5
They've used the idea that he's gotten back twice in official material. I'd be more shocked if he didn't. The ONLY reason why Mike and Sulley were able to enter various doors through the Human World at will and still return to the Monster World is because ALL of the doors in the factory had been simultaneously activated by the power of Boo's screams and laughter, which means that ever closet door in the Human World that had a corresponding door in that factory was open and activated and anyone could have accessed the factory through it. Even if the door in the factory through which they entered was destroyed, as long as there was a house nearby with a child's room, there was still a way back. In Randall's case, though, this is a very isolated part of the country, and it's likely that there were no other dwellings nearby, least of all any with children, and a swamp in southern Louisiana is a very dangerous place if you don't know your way around. If you don't have a boat, you aren't going anywhere, and there are lots of things that can hurt you, not just the humans, though of course the fact that THEY kill and eat large scaly animals won't help. If you recall, after Mike and Sulley finally have Boo after throwing Randall through that door, all of the doors become inactive, and they are unable to put her back in her door as planned before Waternoose calls down that particular door, as he and the CDA wait below on the Scare Floor. pitbulllady So he can go somewhere where there are more people. America, even with it's fairly isolated spots, is still one of the most heavily populated countries in the world. The odds of traveling through it and never finding a single home with a child are ridiculously unlikely. Taking for granted that they live in an area that's completely swamped (it seems unlikely; they have the truck. It may look pretty dirty, but it looks virtually identical to its Toy Story appearances, both of which show it running fine), people live there, so contact with others needs to be made eventually in order to get basic necessities (even if these people were ridiculously good at living off the land, they'd at least need new light bulbs). So there would need to be a boat, or some other vehicle that can make it there. If it's small he takes it, if it's big he stows away. Maybe Randall wouldn't stick around long enough for that, but considering the problem to begin with revolves around the idea that there's this one trailer, and it's surrounded by dangerous swamp land, where's he going to go? The swamp? Why not try to go through it if he's going to hang out in it anyway? As for all the door's no longer being activated, that's true, and easily solvable by simply finding a kid's room and hanging out in it while invisible. As far as he knows, scream's still being harvested. And we know laugh is being harvested. So a monster would most likely come through the door eventually. If not, he can find another one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is the exact same method we're led to believe Sully used to get back at one point; and he didn't even have the benefit of being unseen. It wouldn't be as easy as "Walk next door, open closet" but it's not impossible, or even unlikely. May take a bit of time, but he's got like three decades of nothing to do now, at best. And the other option isn't exactly desirable. "Not trapped." There are several problems inherent in that scenario. One, which you did acknowledge, is the fact that the closet doors are not continuously active. While Randall won't have trouble finding a home with a child, the odds of finding a home with a child at the same time that a monster has activated that child's closet door from the other side are staggeringly low. Randall can't just "hang out" in a child's room for who-knows-how-long waiting for that closet door to open. He has to eat, he has to, as the euphemism goes, "answer the call of nature". He can't remain invisible indefinitely, since doing that requires some pretty intense concentration and would use up a lot of energy. He has to SLEEP, and falling asleep he's going to lose that conscious concentration on his surroundings, becoming completely visible to all. The only way that would work is if Randall actually had a relationship with that child's family, that they knew he was there and accepted his presence...and understood why he'd need to hang out in their kid's room. That last part would be trickier to pull off even still, even if Randall were a human, because most parents simply aren't going to trust any adult male to stay in their child's bedroom! Randall would need to know for a fact that a monster was still coming in through that closet door on a fairly regular basis, too, otherwise he'd be taking a chance that this particular door had been shredded already. This IS Louisiana, after all. Most kids are not afraid of a big reptilian-like creature because they see those all the time, including some that are a whole lot bigger than Randall. Nearly all families are going to be armed, including some of the kids, because here in the South, kids start learning how to shoot and handle firearms at a very early age. Many families have large, aggressive dogs; trust me, Randall would NOT want to encounter a Catahoula, let alone a pack of them! Louisiana is a very, very different place than the little Himalayan village that Sulley traveled to in order to make HIS way back. The Himalayas is a remote part of the world where belief in monsters and spirits is very strong, people don't lock their homes so there's easy access to the inside of the homes, and few people have guns. In the quiet of a remote village, it's easy to hear a child's screams of terror, with no tv, no radio, now electrical heating systems, no cars or other vehicles to mask that sound. Getting around in a swamp is not easy, either. There's quicksand, mud, thick vegetation that includes a lot of thorny or sharp plants than can hurt you, there's leeches, a whole horde of biting, stinging, bloodsucking insects and ticks, and there are a lot of big wild animals that will kill you, not just alligators, either. The swamps of Louisiana are also home to bears, cougars, and wild hogs, and several species of venomous snakes. Even the waters aren't safe, because in addition to alligators, there are huge gar fish, bowfins, bull sharks, and alligator snapping turtles that weigh more than Randall does. Randall is a Midwesterner, probably a farm boy, but that is not going to prepare him for how to get around in a dense swamp, what to eat, what not to eat, etc. I've hunted wild hogs in a Louisiana swamp before, and it's not unlike the Amazon rain forest in South America. If you do not know your way around, or aren't with someone who does, as I was, there are a lot of ways to die out there and none of them are pleasant. We also have to figure in the fact that Randall is not going to escape that beating unscathed. He WILL have injuries, and those injuries could have a permanent effect on his ability to blend in with his background, which will make hanging out in some kid's room, undetected, even more difficult. pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 26, 2014 2:58:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately the source of that information was a Geocities blog by a Pixar artist who worked on the movie, and that blog no longer exists. So, no, other than the already well-known fact that Eisner and Steve Jobs were at each other's throats over ownership of the Pixar characters, something all long-time Pixar fans are very much aware of, that is all I can point to. Geocities does not even exist anymore. This was back in the day when the Randall Fans United site was still up and running. You can Google information about the conflict between Eisner and Pixar, though, and the turbulent history between Disney and Pixar during his reign as CEO, and all the reasons for that contention. Pixar now controls Disney Featured Animation, and look at the difference between how Randall was portrayed during the time that Eisner was in control, and how he's portrayed now.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 25, 2014 21:38:13 GMT -5
You have to realize, as upsetting as it is, that ALL of the books, etc., which were published at that time were highly critical of Randall to say the least, IF they mentioned him at all, because Disney was in control of those characters and Disney WANTED everyone to hate Randall to justify a decision made by THEIR CEO. No one, not even the people at Pixar, could have foreseen how popular Randall would be, and Disney certainly missed that boat. You will not find any book written during the Eisner Era that is even neutral when it comes to Randall, other than that one little joke book/book bad "tag-along" that is shaped like Randall's head. That was a one-of-a-kind item, because it didn't try to make Randall out to be epitome of evil.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 23, 2014 18:28:46 GMT -5
We see that same thing in MU, as well, although by the time that "Mike's New Car" takes place, you have to realize the amount of pressure that Sulley is subjected to as CEO, pressure that I might add, he is in NO way prepared to deal with at all! I also have to ponder if perhaps that phone call was carefully timed so as to avoid having to listen to Mike go on and on about HIMself, how wonderful HE is, how fantastic HIS car is. That has to get tiresome after awhile.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 20, 2014 13:25:11 GMT -5
Yes, I've seen it, and we have discussed it here already. Keep in mind that a Wiki is NOT official; it's a fan-created site, and most of them ARE made by "trolls", people who put them up just to rile people. This is probably written by the same person who wrote the Disney Villains Wiki, a bored little kid trying to stir up something by creating a site that they totally control, so no one can challenge them. There are people like that on Tumblr, who believe that Randall was using both Waternoose and Johnny Worthington, as well as Mike, that he was always evil and planning all along to do horrible things just to rise to power, and was just hiding behind a mask of friendliness and insecurity. Recently one poster compared Randall to the California shooter, that Rodger moron, saying that Randall was the epitome of "male entitlement" and the "patriarchy" who believed he could do all those horrible things simply because he was male, and chose Boo as his "victim" because she was a helpless female!
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 17, 2014 0:36:20 GMT -5
I'm not even sure I would say that Randall was "jealous" of Sulley, so much as he was frustrated that no one else seemed to realize that Sulley was NOT "all that" and that Sulley only was successful because he A)was the privileged son of a famous Scarer and road his family name to fame, and B) he was a cheater. Randall knows Sulley as a jerk and a cheater who got whatever he wanted because of his family name from college, and unlike Mike, Randall never gets to have that heart-to-heart conversation with Sulley and find out what really makes him "tick", as Mike did out at the lake. Randall is determined not to be beaten by someone he knows to be dishonest, and who has been given an unfair advantage, and once Waternoose discovered this "bad blood", he took full advantage of it and played the two against one other for his own purposes. To Randall, Sulley was a genuinely dishonest individual, and Randall had no reason to think otherwise, so his "jealousy" was more of an extreme reaction that is not unlike how most of us feel when we believe that a dishonest person has been awarded success that they do not deserve.
pitbulllady
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Hello
Jun 16, 2014 13:38:58 GMT -5
Post by pitbulllady on Jun 16, 2014 13:38:58 GMT -5
Welcome to the Boggs Board! Most of the members here feel the same way that you do-we want to see Randall safe, see him redeem himself and finally be happy.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 15, 2014 10:55:47 GMT -5
You REALLY have to take into consideration far more than just Randall's spoken words here. On the surface, the sentence, "don't blow this for me, Mike", sounds rather callous. It's partly responsible for the widely-held belief that Randall "ditched" Mike as a friend when someone better came along and that he'd been planning to do this from the start. Many people easily forget, or discount, Randall's earlier words, "we're gonna be best chums, Mike! I can feel it!" We MUST look at Randall's body language and voice inflection while he was speaking. When he tells Mike that they're gonna be "best chums", he maintains an open body position all the time. He keeps his face and torso completely facing Mike and maintains total eye contact. His arm gesture is one of enthusiasm. All of these things point to complete sincerity on Randall's part. He meant every word that he said there.
Now, contrast his body language/eye contact and vocal inflection when he tells Mike not to "blow this" for him. Randall's body is mostly turned away from Mike. He avoids making direct eye contact but keeps glancing back, very nervously, at the ROR's to see if they've noticed him speaking to Mike. When he says the words, they are barely above a whisper, and he puts his hand up to his mouth in a rather conspiratorial manner. THAT gesture indicates that he is not supposed to be talking to Mike in the first place and he's trying to avoid being seen doing so, AND it also indicates that what he's saying has a hidden meaning, that he does not really MEAN what the words are stating, but is trying to convey to Mike that this is a temporary situation, that he is not ALLOWED to associate with Mike while he's still an initiate/probationary member of ROR. But, it also means that he's confident that once the Scare Games are over, things will "loosen up" and he will once again be allowed to associate with Mike. It's the sort of gesture that people make when they're in a position where they can't tell the whole story, but intend to reveal to the recipient of their words the truth later on, when their present company(the ROR's and other frats who might snitch on him) and situation changes. It was Randall's way of trying to get across, "we can talk about this later when Johnny isn't watching me like a hawk", basically. Randall clearly did not expect Mike to even be there, so this really put him on the spot, so to speak, and he never had time to fully explain that situation to Mike, to try to get him to understand(not that Mike would have understood anyone else's perspective).
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 15, 2014 10:35:58 GMT -5
That would be ironic. If the original Monsters Inc. film was about Sulley protecting Boo from danger that Randall put her in then the sequel was about Randall protecting her from danger that Sulley (unintentionally) put her in. Yes, it would be ironic indeed, and irony can make for a very interesting plot twist, can it not? pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 12, 2014 0:22:24 GMT -5
I would like to see Randall's ability save his life and that of someone else, too, to show that one's abilities and talents can be used for good or bad, and most of all, to show HIM that it's a good thing. In MU, Randall is very much ashamed of his ability at first and sees it as a bad habit that he has difficulty controlling, and worse, something that makes him the butt of jokes and ridicule. By the time we see him in MI, he's learned how to use it effectively as a Scarer, and unfortunately, Waternoose makes use of that same ability of Randall's to put him up to some not-so-good things, but I don't think that Randall has ever considered that ability of his a cause for celebration, a way to actually earn respect and get attention. It has unfortunately become symbolic for how others overlook him and ignore him, as though he really WERE invisible, and he sees this as a liability to be overcome, not as a real asset.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 7, 2014 18:00:17 GMT -5
I really don't know...that's a good question, too. There is no doubt that Sulley had grown very fond of Boo, in a fatherly way, but let's face it: he is NOT her father! He's not even a family member. He IS jeopardizing HIS career and freedom for sure, since you can bet that if the CDA finds out that the door THEY ordered to be destroyed has been rebuilt and re-activated on the sly, and the company CEO(whom I'm sure they prefer to keep tight reigns upon) has been making unauthorized visits to the Human World, there will be hell to pay from a legal standing. Not only that, but Sulley definitely risks being caught by Boo's real parents, and who knows how THEY will react? I never considered that he might be putting Boo at risk, too, but it does make sense that the CDA might actually decide that she knows too much now and is old enough to tell others about the Monster World, and if Sulley gets stupid and decides to bring her to HIS world for a visit, he is definitely pushing the envelope! That might actually be a good plot for Randall to show up and save her and redeem himself in Sulley's eyes, since it was Randall's intentions for Boo that made Sulley really want to seek revenge against Randall in the first place.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 7, 2014 14:26:23 GMT -5
I'm pretty good at it, but there are a lot of people who hate being presented with facts and do not want to take the time to read them. I'm very meticulous and detailed when I present an argument, which I was taught to be in Debate Class back in high school and college. Nowadays, with Twitter and texting, people cannot wrap their minds around actual paragraphs. Others get angry-you will see examples here-because in order to plead Randall's case, with regards to the fact that what happened to him was unfair, illegal and immoral in and of itself, it is necessary to point out that Mike and Sulley were no angels and did not deserve the accolades they've received. People who are really fond of them, and Mike especially since MU, get riled up about that because they do not want to hear that their darlings are less than perfect themselves. There are others who are so hung up on "bullies", and see both Randall and Johnny as no more than bullies, and then there are those who hate Randall because they believe he was going to kill Boo, and lots of other human kids, and refuse to see the picture any other way. They see the morality of what he was doing only from a human perspective.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 4, 2014 12:39:28 GMT -5
Mike and Sulley SHOULD absolutely be on the receiving end of that little thing called "Karma", whether it's in the form of humans invading and taking over their world's power supply or what. By definition, Karma is NOT the result of actions of the person who was wronged, but some random act, perhaps set in motion by the original wrong-doing. What happens to Johnny in Party Central, for instance, is Karma. For something bad to happen to Mike and Sulley, something that Randall had no part in but which Randall holds the "key" to "fixing" the problem would be great.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 4, 2014 12:34:22 GMT -5
First option, obviously!
pitbulllady
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