Mike and Sulley DESERVE this, don't they?

[randallsnape7]

I think all of us have to admit that after the heartbreaking tragedy of Randall being banished by Mike and Sulley, we would be working rather hard to surpress a mirthless laughter seeing Monsters, Inc. invaded by a group of selfish, arrogant humans wanting to seize control. Mike and Sulley have acted arrogant and uncouth themselves on numerous occasions, even before their heinous crime against Randall. After banishing Randall when he was begging for his life, I personally feel that Mike and Sulley DESERVE a human invasion, don't you think?

Pitbullady, what do you think? I hope you get where I'm coming from on this, and I think ALL of us - even if we somehow, in our own way, still like Mike and Sulley, due to their obvious potential of embracing Randall in friendship - would have to admit that seeing Mike and Sulley's precious little world crumble around them at the hands of arrogant, irreverent, power-hungry humans would almost make me think, "Ha, ha! Serves you right... NOW, who's gonna have the last laugh? That's right... Yours Truly, 'Lizard Boy'.". Please tell me how you would feel about this. Do you think they 'have it coming' with a human invasion?

[pitbulllady]

Mike and Sulley SHOULD absolutely be on the receiving end of that little thing called "Karma", whether it's in the form of humans invading and taking over their world's power supply or what. By definition, Karma is NOT the result of actions of the person who was wronged, but some random act, perhaps set in motion by the original wrong-doing. What happens to Johnny in Party Central, for instance, is Karma. For something bad to happen to Mike and Sulley, something that Randall had no part in but which Randall holds the "key" to "fixing" the problem would be great.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Yeah, I guess Karma is the sort of thing I was thinking about. Good to hear it explained (as I understood the general concept, but not the literal definition), that it would NOT be Randall's fault when Mike and Sulley face their crisis... it would simply, as I've said before, COMPLETELY turn the tables around.

Logically speaking, if Randall ended up in a situation where he was at Mike and Sulley's mercy, and yet they showed him no mercy at all... then it is fitting that at the climax of the next film, Mike and Sulley find themselves at RANDALL'S mercy... but to their surprise, Randall DOES show them mercy. That would be very moving to see.

Additional thought: It's my belief that Pixar, or Disney, or the 'Monsters' franchise is sort of teetering on the edge of a coin. The difference between Randall returning vs. not returning is almost a gamble with the cosmos itself. As a wise poet once said: "No man is an island...". I can't remember the rest of the poem, but the point being made is that all human beings and their actions are all connected. Using this logic, Mike and Sulley CANNOT get away with murdering Randall, neither can they be allowed to perpetuate their own delusion that banishing him because he was so difficult was morally right, that it will solve the problem, or put their minds at ease. IT DOESN'T. At some point in the future, it WILL come back to haunt them... that's an absolute certainty. It's wrong for Mike and Sulley to suddenly rid Randall from their lives... ultimately, they will both find that they CANNOT keep him out of their lives - that they do not have the RIGHT to keep him out of their lives, whether they want him or not.

Learning to deal with Randall, and accepting him for who he is, and embracing him in friendship is the only way Mike and Sulley will ever be at peace.

[reptile682]

I definitely agree with you and pittbulllady. Mike and Sulley don't deserve to get away with what they did to Randall. Like you said, it will eventually catch up to them and with what pittbulllady said, they should be on the receiving end in the next film. Honestly, I think Mike should bear the brunt of whatever bad thing befalls them. I'm not saying that Sulley should just get a slap on the wrist, because he had just as much involvement in Randall's banishment as Mike did. However, Mike was one of the main catalysts, the other being Waternoose, that caused Randall to snap. This was due to Mike constantly pushing Randall's buttons with his egocentric behavior throughout the film. The only thing that really came from Sulley was Waternoos's constant praising of Sulley, which sparked Randall's jealousy of him and even then Randall's jealousy of Sulley was caused by Waternoose. The idea in the next film of Randall coming to save them in their moment of peril is an awesome idea and I think that Randall showing them mercy would be his redeeming moment. Mike and Sulley, especially Mike, would be utterly gobsmacked and this would completely change their views of Randall and finally accept him for who he is. Your idea would be a satisfying and fitting end to the Monsters series unless Pixar does more after that.

[pitbulllady]

I'm not even sure I would say that Randall was "jealous" of Sulley, so much as he was frustrated that no one else seemed to realize that Sulley was NOT "all that" and that Sulley only was successful because he A)was the privileged son of a famous Scarer and road his family name to fame, and B) he was a cheater. Randall knows Sulley as a jerk and a cheater who got whatever he wanted because of his family name from college, and unlike Mike, Randall never gets to have that heart-to-heart conversation with Sulley and find out what really makes him "tick", as Mike did out at the lake. Randall is determined not to be beaten by someone he knows to be dishonest, and who has been given an unfair advantage, and once Waternoose discovered this "bad blood", he took full advantage of it and played the two against one other for his own purposes. To Randall, Sulley was a genuinely dishonest individual, and Randall had no reason to think otherwise, so his "jealousy" was more of an extreme reaction that is not unlike how most of us feel when we believe that a dishonest person has been awarded success that they do not deserve.

pitbulllady

[reptile682]

Jun 17, 2014 0:36:20 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

I'm not even sure I would say that Randall was "jealous" of Sulley, so much as he was frustrated that no one else seemed to realize that Sulley was NOT "all that" and that Sulley only was successful because he A)was the privileged son of a famous Scarer and road his family name to fame, and B) he was a cheater. Randall knows Sulley as a jerk and a cheater who got whatever he wanted because of his family name from college, and unlike Mike, Randall never gets to have that heart-to-heart conversation with Sulley and find out what really makes him "tick", as Mike did out at the lake. Randall is determined not to be beaten by someone he knows to be dishonest, and who has been given an unfair advantage, and once Waternoose discovered this "bad blood", he took full advantage of it and played the two against one other for his own purposes. To Randall, Sulley was a genuinely dishonest individual, and Randall had no reason to think otherwise, so his "jealousy" was more of an extreme reaction that is not unlike how most of us feel when we believe that a dishonest person has been awarded success that they do not deserve.

pitbulllady

Oh ok yeah that makes more sense now that I think about it because being the only person to know that Sulley was not what everyone else thought he was, unless Waternoose already knew who Sulley really was too, would lead more to frustration than jealousy. 

[randallsnape7]

I hear what you're saying about Mike, but you also need to keep in mind that BECAUSE Mike and Randall have that history of being friends and roommates, however short it was, MIKE will most likely be the one to fetch Randall, and Sulley will almost certainly oppose and/or challenge him on the matter at the time he confesses to Sulley that this is what Mike has decided to do. The rationale is that Mike, throughout BOTH 'Monsters' films, has always been primarily concerned with saving his own skin, above everything else.

There are 2 crucial factors in Mike reaching the point where he would fetch Randall: 1) ALL it would take for Mike to want to fetch Randall is if EVERY SINGLE AVENUE he takes in trying to defeat the evil at hand throughout the first two-thirds of the movie leads to a solid roadblock or dead end, eliminating his every haven of comfort or assurance. Mike is prone to despairing prematurely, and on top of that, whatever idea Mike comes up with, he AUTOMATICALLY thinks it makes him a solid genius. 2) IF Mike thought that fetching Randall would be 'their ticket out of this mess', and the ONLY way Mike can save his own skin, I think Mike would do it... even if it meant gambling his relationship with Sulley.

The problem with Sulley, on the other hand, in terms of his attitude toward Randall, is that as it stands right now, he knows NOTHING about Randall's personal life. ALL Sulley will see in his head is Boo being the specimen of the Scream Extractor, disregarding the almost certain evidence that Waternoose was responsible for it, and that - to the best of his knowledge, or perceptions - Randall was trying to kill Boo. Because of this, when Randall rises up against the human antagonists attempting to ruin Monsters, Inc., it is important that Sulley witnesses Randall's heroism. By extension, BECAUSE Sulley cares so much about Boo, the best and most effective way for Randall to redeem himself in Sulley's eyes would be for Boo to be used as a hostage by the human villain near the climax of the film, and for Randall to save her life.

To CLEARLY draw the line from all the uncertainties and the snaking loopholes in Randall's operation of the Scream Extractor, whatever torture device the human villain concocts needs to be in-your-face, like an electrocution device, and the villain needs to openly state that he has EVERY intention to kill Boo, if Sulley does not bow to his demands. The scene needs to play out similarly to the ending of 'The Dark Knight', where Harvey Dent threatens Jim Gordon's family, or like the climax of 'Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi', when Palpatine/Darth Sidious slowly tortures Luke Skywalker with Force-lightning, leaving him at Anakin's mercy when he hurls Sidious down the reactor shaft.

For Mike, believing the best in Randall will be a 50/50 journey. Half of it will be motivated by his main desire to save his own skin, and the other half will come if, and only if, once Mike is back in the swamp area, he and Randall get to share a quiet moment alone to work through their issues and reforge their bond as friends. HOWEVER... something drastic is going to have to happen for Sulley to start viewing Randall as a good person. It stands to reason that the ONLY way Sulley will ever think differently about Randall will be if he, himself, at that LAST second in the moment of crisis, witnesses an unexpected act of heroism from Randall before his very eyes.

[reptile682]

Jun 18, 2014 1:47:54 GMT -5 randallsnape7 said:

I hear what you're saying about Mike, but you also need to keep in mind that BECAUSE Mike and Randall have that history of being friends and roommates, however short it was, MIKE will most likely be the one to fetch Randall, and Sulley will almost certainly oppose and/or challenge him on the matter at the time he confesses to Sulley that this is what Mike has decided to do. The rationale is that Mike, throughout BOTH 'Monsters' films, has always been primarily concerned with saving his own skin, above everything else.

There are 2 crucial factors in Mike reaching the point where he would fetch Randall: 1) ALL it would take for Mike to want to fetch Randall is if EVERY SINGLE AVENUE he takes in trying to defeat the evil at hand throughout the first two-thirds of the movie leads to a solid roadblock or dead end, eliminating his every haven of comfort or assurance. Mike is prone to despairing prematurely, and on top of that, whatever idea Mike comes up with, he AUTOMATICALLY thinks it makes him a solid genius. 2) IF Mike thought that fetching Randall would be 'their ticket out of this mess', and the ONLY way Mike can save his own skin, I think Mike would do it... even if it meant gambling his relationship with Sulley.

The problem with Sulley, on the other hand, in terms of his attitude toward Randall, is that as it stands right now, he knows NOTHING about Randall's personal life. ALL Sulley will see in his head is Boo being the specimen of the Scream Extractor, disregarding the almost certain evidence that Waternoose was responsible for it, and that - to the best of his knowledge, or perceptions - Randall was trying to kill Boo. Because of this, when Randall rises up against the human antagonists attempting to ruin Monsters, Inc., it is important that Sulley witnesses Randall's heroism. By extension, BECAUSE Sulley cares so much about Boo, the best and most effective way for Randall to redeem himself in Sulley's eyes would be for Boo to be used as a hostage by the human villain near the climax of the film, and for Randall to save her life.

To CLEARLY draw the line from all the uncertainties and the snaking loopholes in Randall's operation of the Scream Extractor, whatever torture device the human villain concocts needs to be in-your-face, like an electrocution device, and the villain needs to openly state that he has EVERY intention to kill Boo, if Sulley does not bow to his demands. The scene needs to play out similarly to the ending of 'The Dark Knight', where Harvey Dent threatens Jim Gordon's family, or like the climax of 'Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi', when Palpatine/Darth Sidious slowly tortures Luke Skywalker with Force-lightning, leaving him at Anakin's mercy when he hurls Sidious down the reactor shaft.

For Mike, believing the best in Randall will be a 50/50 journey. Half of it will be motivated by his main desire to save his own skin, and the other half will come if, and only if, once Mike is back in the swamp area, he and Randall get to share a quiet moment alone to work through their issues and reforge their bond as friends. HOWEVER... something drastic is going to have to happen for Sulley to start viewing Randall as a good person. It stands to reason that the ONLY way Sulley will ever think differently about Randall will be if he, himself, at that LAST second in the moment of crisis, witnesses an unexpected act of heroism from Randall before his very eyes.

Yeah I guess I just said that about Mike merely because of my extreme dislike of the character lol.  Despite my own personal views of Mike, you make a lot of valid points the crucial one being that they were roommates in MU.  I also like the fact that you compare this situation with Randall with other movies like Star Wars and The Dark Knight because if you think about it, there are countless parallels.

[randallsnape7]

That's one of the great things about movie analyses is that we are never truly at a loss to find a solution to the end of an incomplete series. When the Harry Potter books were coming out, particularly Years 6 and 7, and people were anticipating those, I had read through several issues of a special movie-buff collector's magazine, called 'Movie Magic' (nowadays, I've seen the title 'Film Fantasy', and it does a LOT of what we are doing). There was a section in which Harry Potter fans had gathered together to discuss and deduce certain inevitable events that await the future of the Harry Potter series. It analyzed that Harry's fate could possibly be foretold in 'The Lord of the Rings', and the stories of 'King Arthur'.

That book, 'The Great Snape Debate', makes countless parallels between 'Harry Potter' and 'Star Wars', as well as 'The Lord of the Rings', 'A Tale of Two Cities', the series 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (which I have not seen), and even 'Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan'.

Some more popular parallels seen in other Disney movies regarding the future of the 'Monsters' franchise I might add, as food for thought, would some of the animated films:

1) 'Beauty and the Beast', for instance. The Beast and Belle almost reached a falling out in their relationship by the time Gaston led his men to pick up their torches and invade the Beast's castle.

2) 'Aladdin: The Return of Jafar'. This is a GOOD parallel. Iago may have acted as an antagonist in the first 'Aladdin' movie, but he ultimately finds finds redemption after Aladdin, the Genie, and Jasmine mistake Iago for being a traitor. Iago ultimately shows up at the last second, similar to Han Solo at the Death Star Attack in 'Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope', and DESTROYS Jafar's genie lamp, although in Iago's case, he got badly injured in the process, although he does recover from that, as is shown by the start of 'Aladdin and the King of Thieves'.

3) 'The Lion King II: Simba's Pride'. After Zira leads Simba to believe that Kovu betrayed Simba by leading him into an ambush, Simba gets angry and exiles Kovu, but Kiara's fierce love for Kovu and her determination for them to live their lives together help turn Kovu's fate around. They both intervene and confront their opposing parents in the lioness battle under the rainstorm, and after the battle, Simba says "Kovu? I was wrong... you belong here. Let's go home... all of us.".

And I'm sure there are many other great Disney examples I haven't metioned, but you get the picture.

[randallsnape7]

Just to further clarify what I was saying earlier in my 'Mike vs. Sulley' character analysis is that when you think about it... of the two, it REALLY defies logic that Sulley would be the one to go fetch Randall from the human world. I just don't think the audience would buy that. He just has too much against Randall, and is too attached to Boo. As it stands right now, Sulley is unlikely to be convinced by any confession or explanation from Randall Boggs. Like I said, something drastic needs to happen in order for Sulley to start seeing Randall as a good person. So, in differing with what you were saying about 'something bad befalling Mike and Sulley', I am totally convinced that SULLEY will have to bear the brunt of the evil at large. Mike has to be left standing so he can fetch Randall from the Human World.

When I said 'every single avenue' in Mike trying to defeat the humans, that included Sulley himself. Mike does trust Sulley, for the most part, but since Sulley is the CEO of the company, he REALLY needs be the one to suffer the most of whatever disaster strikes Monsters, Inc., and Mike has to see that things have changed and that Sulley CANNOT help him. I personally think Sulley's authority should be usurped and that he should even become trapped in a cage, as even the 'Monsters, Inc.' filmmaker DVD commentary said that they considered in an abandoned concept, showing this room with cages full of human children awaiting testing on the Scream Extractor (as if they couldn't sling mud at Randall enough), BUT... the humans could just as easily use the cages to imprison the MONSTERS. Celia Mae, for instance... SHE needs to become caged or captured as well, as that would give Mike ever further incentive to fetch Randall. Cages have keys, and if one of the humans kept that key in their pocket, Randall would be the IDEAL person to get that key, because obviously... he can turn INVISIBLE!

Events have to happen in the correct order, kind of like one of my favorite Nintendo 64 games, 'Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire'. There's a Coruscant sewer mission in which Dash Rendar has to acquire a force field deactivator, and has to deactivate a long row shining purple doors, one after the other. Then... he has to activate four sets of rotating fan blades just to proceed forward. That's kind of the maze we're in where Mike and Sulley are concerned: By the end of the second film, the odds of Mike, Sulley, and Randall becoming the best of friends seem astronomical, and Sulley has NO reason whatsoever to consider fetching Randall. But for Mike, events simply have to be lined up in such a way, and all the locks have to click in just the right order for Mike to ultimately think: "Randall.... YES! He's our ticket out of this mess!", and there you go! Mike Wazowski is a total GENIUS... the humans certainly aren't gonna expect RANDALL!