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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 19, 2012 1:01:21 GMT -5
Oh yeah sorry, thanks, my mind skipped. Also...wasn't Newt an endangered species? Hence he was to be paired up with Brooke? Forced love can have many things, but putting a male/female of a dangerous species together in an animated film to keep it alive...not so on-point. What I mean is, Rio seemed to have taken the concept full-on. As for Alpha/Omega...don't know if the two were an endangered species but...
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 19, 2012 6:16:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure, though, what the cancellation of Newt has to do with Pixar wanting Randall's personality in MU to be such a secret. We'd already found out what the plot of Newt was to be before the pics got out, and from what I've read, the reason it was cancelled was due to an unimpressive test audience response to some of the rough-animated bits. People just didn't relate to the characters. It probably would have made a cute short-animated film, but couldn't stand alone as a feature. People already know Randall, though...or at least SOME of us do, lol. And, it's not like having a nice character change for the worst, or vice versa, is a new thing in movies, even though in animated features(Western animation, anyway) it is more common to just have characters that are "black and white" with regards to who is good and who isn't, and not bother with any sort of character arc, due to that belief that only children watch animation and children can't comprehend anything so complex.
pitbulllady
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 11:00:13 GMT -5
There was no official reason given for Newt's cancellation, and I'm not sure WHERE you read that PBL. Not saying you didn't, but I've been researching that film off and on over the last several years and I don't think I've ever come across that once. Do you have a source for that perhaps? I read nothing about the characters being negatively received (and a quick cursory search is turning up nothing on that as well) so can you cite that from somewhere? I DID read that concept art was released (and it's available now) but as far as I know nothing about negative reactions was mentioned in the articles I read. Lasseter has gone on record and kind of hinted that Rio was the reason they shelved the project: www.ign.com/articles/2011/05/02/pixar-on-newt so there is at least circumstantial evidence pointing to that being the reason. What I specifically remember about Newt however is that Pixar released plot details for it as early as 2007, which is WAY ahead of time, and not what they typically do with their films. I think what RB is saying is that given how two of the same films came out within a YEAR of each other with the same exact plot as a film that Pixar had announced three years before, it does seem to be a rather huge coincidence. Pixar has typically been secretive almost to a fault with their plot releases, but that all changed around Ratatouille's release, when they began releasing more details than they usually did on their upcoming feature films. It seems they stopped doing that though as once again they're back to keeping a tight lid on plot details and only releasing very limited information. As far as the Randall picture being removed... I can't say what that was for, but perhaps they're just erring on the side of caution due to having gotten beaten to the punch twice with one of their future films. As pointed out, a picture doesn't really reveal full on details about anything, but perhaps it's simply part of an umbrella type campaign to keep a closer watch on things and play things closer to their chest. Ultimately I have no idea, and I'm trying to connect the dots just as much as anyone. Either way, I CAN say that they released quite a bit of details in the latter half of the earlier decade, and then stopped that by the time the decade ended, going back to their old formula of keeping their movies well under wraps until a few months before release date.
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 19, 2012 18:58:55 GMT -5
I checked around via Google for "Randall Boggs Monsters University" today, and while most of it came up "baddie Randall Boggs returns", yada yada yada, there was a LOT of "chatter" about this pic, with roughly half of the links missing the pic and some having a statement, "picture removed at the request of Disney". So, now we know that Disney/Pixar did not want the pics "leaked" out, but too many people have already seen them and posted about them. Like I said, the cat's out of the bag already. Irritatingly enough, no one had mentioned that Randall does not look the least big "evil" or "mean" or "bad" or "villainous" in that pic, only that he is in the same pic as a new character who has different frat letters from Mike and Sulley's so he has to be bad, too. Honestly, it seems like if Randall is seen feeding the homeless and carrying old ladies across the street and saving drowning monster children, he'd still be labeled as a "villain", and a lot of people won't accept that he was ever anything but evil, regardless of what he does or how he acts.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 19, 2012 20:49:18 GMT -5
Then those people are not worthy of even our frustration PBL. Stalwart refusal to accept "the gray area" are not worth extended time. Anybody with a lick of sense would see that there is NO sign of evil/villainous intent in him here. There's nervousness, shyness, and uncertainty. Now, they may not NOTICE this, and may only comment that he's essentially confirmed "back". But if they DO comment that he's still a "baddie" or the "villain", then regardless of whatever they may think...they're wrong. May seem pompous to say so, but it's true. If you stick with thinking someone's always been a spawn of evil then obviously there's something wrong with ya.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 19, 2012 21:11:22 GMT -5
Ok, I've been thinking a little on "the incident" that involves Randall, and by extension, Sullivan and Wazowski. A good friend reminded me of something so obvious in university/college, that I am surprised I skipped it over....
Fraternities and Sororities. More precisely, what occurs for the NEW arrivals. To pin it down... Initiations and Hazing.
Now I looked into this a little...and there are several incidents of rather...nasty stuff. Suffice it to say, Initiations/Hazing can be from tame to very dangerous/disturbing/emotionally crippling...and in critical situations...fatal.
Now, there is NOoooohoooooo way Pixar is going to be showing Hazing in the regular sense. Though it would be funny to see Sullivan chugging away on a keg of beer and to see all the little kiddies shriek in terror that "that's bad for you!" *chuckles*
BUT...looking at the more...tame base of hazing is essentially a test (or other tests) physically/emotionally or simply just acts that would allow a person into the group. Unfortunately a popular forms include harassment, abuse or humiliation...
Now lets take a look at the fragile little guy in that pic. *studies with others in art museum* ...Now, you think a guy who'd want to be accepted by others and to be in a group...especially in college, would at least attempt to join a fraternity wouldn't ya? But when your young and some-what naive...and harassment, abuse or humiliation could (depending on the degree) mess you up for life (or a long time)...well it's basically connect the dots at this point.
I mean this theory seems to be pretty sound and likely given the period this takes place in. My guess is...the big purple guy there behind Randall may be head of his fraternity...let me see here...Roar Omega Roar...that's it. Well my guess is...this is the most popular fraternity...jocks aplenty. And SULLIVAN has what it takes to get in. Now BP (big purple guy), gives Sullivan an option to join in his initiation by doing a certain something.... Now this might involve Wazowski...but it might also involve Randall. Randall's young, maybe a bit gullible, and smart. While not actually BEING one, BP would see this him as a geek and maybe putting them to shame in the more academic fields by upstaging them....
This is just starting theory...but I admire it...would be the starting stages of what I'd show. I mean I don't wish anything negative on Randall for a beat of my soul...but just saying.
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Post by lizardgirl on Dec 19, 2012 21:22:16 GMT -5
Just had a quick search and I see what you mean, pitbulllady. Part of me wants to slam my head against my desk. I almost feel sorry for Pixar- I mean, they've made a conceited effort to make Randall look as friendly and sweet as possible without like giving him bunny ears or something, and still people are like "LOL LOOK HE'S A VILLAIN LOL". The only thing we can hope for is that these people will be convinced by actual footage of young Randall in action closer to the film's release.
And RB does make a good point- okay, not everyone's going to change their minds after seeing a single image, and that's fine, but if the film comes out and Randall is clearly NOT a bad person, but people insist on labelling him as a 'villain'...Well, yes, those people do have something wrong with them, haha.
I like the fact that a lot of these articles are calling Randall "Randall J. Boggs". Is the fact that his middle name begins with J actually canon? Seen it on a few sites now and it seems a bit random that everyone is suddenly calling him that.
Another quick aside: Fungus is returning too, right? I'm curious as to how Pixar have chosen to play out the dynamics between Randall and Fungus (if the two meet, which I guess they probably will). It's sort of ironic with Randall now seeming to be quite Fungus-esque in his younger years- probably not as jittery or lacking in common sense as Fungus, but it does look like there might be parallels between the two characters. Perhaps that's part of why Randall gets so frustrated with him in MI (aside from his general incompetence); perhaps Fungus reminds him of how he used to be, somewhat?
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 19, 2012 21:27:50 GMT -5
Ok, I've been thinking a little on "the incident" that involves Randall, and by extension, Sullivan and Wazowski. A good friend reminded me of something so obvious in university/college, that I am surprised I skipped it over.... Fraternities and Sororities. More precisely, what occurs for the NEW arrivals. To pin it down... Initiations and Hazing. Now I looked into this a little...and there are several incidents of rather...nasty stuff. Suffice it to say, Initiations/Hazing can be from tame to very dangerous/disturbing/emotionally crippling...and in critical situations...fatal. Now, there is NOoooohoooooo way Pixar is going to be showing Hazing in the regular sense. Though it would be funny to see Sullivan chugging away on a keg of beer and to see all the little kiddies shriek in terror that "that's bad for you!" *chuckles* BUT...looking at the more...tame base of hazing is essentially a test (or other tests) physically/emotionally or simply just acts that would allow a person into the group. Unfortunately a popular forms include harassment, abuse or humiliation... Now lets take a look at the fragile little guy in that pic. *studies with others in art museum* ...Now, you think a guy who'd want to be accepted by others and to be in a group...especially in college, would at least attempt to join a fraternity wouldn't ya? But when your young and some-what naive...and harassment, abuse or humiliation could (depending on the degree) mess you up for life (or a long time)...well it's basically connect the dots at this point. I mean this theory seems to be pretty sound and likely given the period this takes place in. My guess is...the big purple guy there behind Randall may be head of his fraternity...let me see here...Roar Omega Roar...that's it. Well my guess is...this is the most popular fraternity...jocks aplenty. And SULLIVAN has what it takes to get in. Now BP (big purple guy), gives Sullivan an option to join in his initiation by doing a certain something.... Now this might involve Wazowski...but it might also involve Randall. Randall's young, maybe a bit gullible, and smart. While not actually BEING one, BP would see this him as a geek and maybe putting them to shame in the more academic fields by upstaging them.... This is just starting theory...but I admire it...would be the starting stages of what I'd show. I mean I don't wish anything negative on Randall for a beat of my soul...but just saying. Everything there made perfect sense, and is a very plausible explanation as to how Randall at least got started down the wrong path. Throw in Waternoose, looking for new recruits, with a promise of showing up the ones who had tormented and ridiculed him...and you've got a recipe for an emotional tsunami down the road. And that is exactly what we saw in the original movie. pitbulllady
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Post by lizardgirl on Dec 19, 2012 21:32:34 GMT -5
RB, I wouldn't be surprised if you're onto something. It's already been confirmed that a substantial part of the storyline (at least nearer the beginning of the film) will be centred around the whole fraternity phenomenon, so it seems likely that a lot of the plot will focus on themes such as trying to fit in and accepting oneself and so on. Maybe the ultimate conclusion of the story is that Mike and Sulley learn to accept themselves and each other without feeling the need to change because of peer pressure, whereas Randall succumbs to that pressure in order to fit in.
Like you said, I can definitely see the whole initiations/hazing thing playing a part. As Billy Crystal said: “[Mike and Sully] end up in the same fraternity where they have this scare competition — like Greek Games in college,” says Crystal. “They have to mobilize a group, sort of like Revenge of the Nerds-monsters, and get them ready to be scary.”
So Randall is in a competing fraternity, alongside this other 'villainous' monster, and is perhaps pressurised into playing dirty or into doing things he doesn't really want to? And ultimately being humiliated? Yes, this all does make sense. Definitely with you on this, RB.
I don't know how extreme this whole fraternities/sororities thing is in actual colleges in America, but part of me is quite glad we don't have it over here, haha. I'm not sure I could deal with the pressure myself! Initiations at the beginning of the year for sports clubs is bad enough...
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 19, 2012 21:33:22 GMT -5
Well who knows...we've had a TEASER trailer...so maaaybe in the official trailer for when it comes out? But actually I have my doubts on that. Maybe Pixar is taking stuff out to keep Randall as the trump card to surprise people...I mean look at how glad WE all were when this pic was leaked...think of the amazed feeling you'd get if you didn't get that....then went to see the film...and THERE you saw him as this little guy. You would be SO happy.
I know it's a single image, but I know Randall's not a bad person. I mean this is just one image, but it says a lot...and images CAN say a lot on their own...this is a great boon to show he's not a bad person regardless...
I never really ventured for Randall's middle name *chuckles*...though maybe they're mistaken a bit since Sullivan's first name is James, and it's not really used, and they substitute the J for Randall or....I dunno. Who knows.
Well here are the facts, per Wikipedia *chuckles*. Fungus SEEMS to be coming in...BUT I don't see anything official. Well with that whole "smiling bit"...I think Fungus is a passive-sadist by enjoying Randall panicking...I just...don't..."trust" Fungus. To be honest, I don't know WHY people think they're friends. Just because Sullivan and Wazowski are, and are on a "scareing team", doesn't really mean THEY bonded to the point of friendship. Still...if Fungus is going to be in it, there would probably be nods. I mean heh...Pixar is aiming to bring in Celia...and no doubt that she'd cross paths with Wazowski (Oh no....I just got a picture of the carnival scene in Nerds and...oh jeez...Darth Vader)...and begin a TEN YEAR RELATIONSHIP...so wild cards abound.
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Post by lizardgirl on Dec 19, 2012 21:42:09 GMT -5
Yeah, even with an official trailer, you know what Pixar's like- you watch a trailer for one of their films and after you watch the film itself, you realise that in fact, the trailer revealed next to nothing at all! And yes, you're right, it would be one of the best feelings in the world to sit down in a cinema with no idea of how Randall is going to be portrayed. Resisting spoilers for this film will be so, SO difficult though, haha.
Problem is, although we've all taken a lot from this single image, it's incredible how lacking in perception most people are...So although it's enough for us (and hopefully enough for anyone who can think logically in any way whatsoever), the 'general audience' might still take a bit of convincing.
Hmm, yes, I know what you mean about Fungus...He's an odd one. Although it's nice to assume that the two of them have an underlying friendship (with the alternative being that if they don't, Randall is very, very alone in the world...), it's a relationship that doesn't seem quite right.
I guess this also begs the question of how Scare Teams are devised- do the Scarers choose their Assistants? Is it a mutual thing? Or based more on pragmatic considerations, like which Assistant would be best for which Scarer in terms of physiological attributes perhaps? Because if the Scarers can choose their partner, it's difficult not to question why Randall went with Fungus. Maybe MU will explain this to some extent.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 19, 2012 21:49:12 GMT -5
Trailers can also spoil a film by basically telling the whole story in a condensed fashion heh heh. Well one POSITIVE we could take, is maybe Randall's thing will (if not a focus) would be a side story to things, and while Sullivan and Wazowski's are all shown in detail, Randall's is secretive to surprise viewers. Yes, it is temptation like chocolate ha!
That is understandable. As stated so correctly by Agent K in Men in Black "A person is smart, people are are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." We here are persons...those are the people *chuckles*
Yes they probably didn't have a friendship, but they worked together so...maybe in terms of academics they had similar goals.
If there is an explanation that can be made, it is certainly possible. Wazowski...is NO SCARER...but he is, apparently, a very talented assistant. So his initiation into that will hopefully explain how they got together. On a side note...again, timid little Randall...how'd this little guy become a Scarer? And how did Wazowski become an assistant (from trying to be a Scarer?). COULD IT BE...that Wazowski's hostilities toward Randall is that Randall became a Scarer? That a nervous little guy "like that" was better than HIM? (in terms of what Wazowski thinks)
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Post by lizardgirl on Dec 19, 2012 21:57:46 GMT -5
On a side note...again, timid little Randall...how'd this little guy become a Scarer? And how did Wazowski become an assistant (from trying to be a Scarer?). COULD IT BE...that Wazowski's hostilities toward Randall is that Randall became a Scarer? That a nervous little guy "like that" was better than HIM? (in terms of what Wazowski thinks) Haha, they can, but if we go on Pixar's past trailers, they tend to keep even the main storyline of the film pretty well hidden. For example, the trailers for MI (as far as I can remember) were basically Mike and Sulley arguing in a child's room, so although you get a very basic gist of the setting of the film, even Boo isn't revealed until you watch the film itself. It's cool that Pixar do that- better than those trailers which, as you said, basically condense the entire film down to a couple of minutes! Oh, also, I quoted the above mainly because I really, REALLY like that idea. It makes sense, it's plausible, and it just sounds right. Definitely.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 19, 2012 22:02:23 GMT -5
Well if I recall....yeah I think that's true.
Well it's what I'd do heh. And for some portions, I'm usually right in my predictions. I mean doesn't make Wazowski's jobs right or justified, but at least it explains that hostility (outside, or including, probable racism for reptiles). Speaking of that racismness...and the whole thing with fraternities and familiarities with Revenge of the Nerds...I would say the coined "Lizard Boy" might make it's appearance, unfortunately.
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Post by mintygreen on Dec 20, 2012 1:11:05 GMT -5
Just had a quick search and I see what you mean, pitbulllady. Part of me wants to slam my head against my desk. I almost feel sorry for Pixar- I mean, they've made a conceited effort to make Randall look as friendly and sweet as possible without like giving him bunny ears or something, and still people are like "LOL LOOK HE'S A VILLAIN LOL". The only thing we can hope for is that these people will be convinced by actual footage of young Randall in action closer to the film's release. And RB does make a good point- okay, not everyone's going to change their minds after seeing a single image, and that's fine, but if the film comes out and Randall is clearly NOT a bad person, but people insist on labelling him as a 'villain'...Well, yes, those people do have something wrong with them, haha. I like the fact that a lot of these articles are calling Randall "Randall J. Boggs". Is the fact that his middle name begins with J actually canon? Seen it on a few sites now and it seems a bit random that everyone is suddenly calling him that. Another quick aside: Fungus is returning too, right? I'm curious as to how Pixar have chosen to play out the dynamics between Randall and Fungus (if the two meet, which I guess they probably will). It's sort of ironic with Randall now seeming to be quite Fungus-esque in his younger years- probably not as jittery or lacking in common sense as Fungus, but it does look like there might be parallels between the two characters. Perhaps that's part of why Randall gets so frustrated with him in MI (aside from his general incompetence); perhaps Fungus reminds him of how he used to be, somewhat? It doesn't surprise me that some people will think he's bad no matter what. Some people just feel that way about anything that has scales. I don't really know if that is the reason in Randall's case with people still thinking he's evil no matter what.....it just wouldn't surprise me. Sulley actually looks way more threatening and arrogant in some of the new pics of him than Randall does in that new picture.
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