Animal rights, anyone?

[Beboots]

Man, why do I always miss the really juicy conversations? -_-;

You could write a huge essay, Pitbullldady, with all the information you've thrown out to us here. If I ever have to write an essay about Animal Welfare or Human Rights, I'm so coming to you for info and imput. ^_^

I don't have a whole lot of personal experience with animals, although my dad does hunt (I've gone along with him a few times, when he was hunting rabbits and grouse), and does get the occasional deer, but it doesn't bother me too much - I'm not too sure why. I guess that at least the deer grew up in it's natural environment, and had (I assume) a decent, free life before my dad shot it, which is more than you can say about some beef products ('sides, venison tastes at least as good as our Alberta Beef). I don't have any pets(my dad's allergic to cats, and since we move around a lot, my parents hesitate to get a dog or something), but I must say laws restricting things like how many animals one can own frustrate me. Now, I have no idea if we have any such laws here in Canada (would they be federal or provincial laws?), so I can't say I know for sure, but I believe such a law would go against our Charter of Rights and Freedoms (that document became a part of our Constitution in 1982, and essentially says that nobody can be descriminated against on the basis of race, religion, sex, physical dissabilities, etc [can't remember the entire list]).... somehow. I'm incredibly tired right now, but I'll try to give an example sometime soon...

I went and looked at the Meatrix, by the way, and ... O.O;; I mean, I remember discussing this stuff in Social Studies last year, and my teacher gave a really good explaination about how the earth gets exhausted when farmed in the modern way (and essentially predicted that farm factories will collapse within the next three or four decades - yay!).

... and while we're on the subject of farming... what do you guys down in America think of the US government closing down the border between us to Canadian beef? All I know about it is the fact that we have quite a few pissed-off beef farmers, who are angry because they're told that their beef supposedly isn't good enough to eat (you know, infected with Mad Cow disease), but their cattle aren't showing any more signs of the disease. Besides, I have Alberta beef (steak) like, once or twice a week, and none of us have fallen ill. ; I'm still confused as to why the borders are still closed to it.
Any of you guys know why?

[pitbulllady]

First, the US vs. Canadian beef thing: I think it was a stupid, typical knee-jerk reaction to ONE single case of Mad Cow Disease, which made even LESS sense when it was discovered the the infected cow orignally came from the US! The American Beef Industry is a hugely powerful lobby group in this country, so it does not take much imagination to figure out that they would stand to benefit from this by eliminating any competition from imported beef, though Canada actually supplies only a very small percentage of beef in this country, with the majority of beef imports coming from Argentina. Argentine beef probably is healther than US beef, since the cattle are raised entirely "free-range" like in the Old West of American history, without the introduction of steriods and antibiotics and such to produce massive weight gain and keep animals alive when they are forced to live in tight quarters.

Now, the hunting aspect: I, too, enjoy hunting and eating wild game, especially wild boar and deer. The meat just plain tastes better and is MUCH healthier to eat. You know, people who study human history have discovered that back when humans were primarily hunter/gatherers, there was little evidence of diseases like cancer, and human remains from that period showed that humans' lifespans were roughly the same as they are now, but NOT because they were artificially prolonged with drugs. When humans began to settle down and farm, though, the lifespan dropped considerably, and evidence of things like cancers, tooth decay, arthritis, osteoporosis, etc. began showing up, indicating that there is something about hunting and eating wild game that actually prolongs our lives.

I look at it this way-a human hunter is no different from a wolf, cougar, or other predator. We serve the same natural function, which is to keep prey animal populations in check and to remove from the gene pool those individuals which are less fit for the survival of THEIR species as a whole. It takes a LOT of skill and know-how to kill a wild deer; you don't just walk out into the woods and find one standing there, waiting for you to shoot it. You have to know a LOT about deer behavior, the way scent carries on the wind, the way shadows are made in relationship to the sun, etc. A lot of anti-hunting people think it's just a matter of someone walking out into the woods and blowing helpless animals away with high-powered rifles, but that isnt' the case. Before you can kill an animal, you have to FIND the animal, and that animal has the "home field advantage" over you, by a long shot! No matter how high-tech hunting equipment may be, it cannot compensate for millions of years of evolution that the animal has on its side. A deer or elk or whatever that gets taken by a hunter, whether than hunter has two legs or four, is simply one which is genetically inferior and probably not as smart as the ones who DON'T get taken, so in the that deer's death, his/her species is benefited because that particular deer can now no longer pass on its inferior genes. Only its smarter cousins will be left to breed, so the next generation will be even more clever.

I've seen first-hand what happens in deer populations which are protected from predation, human or otherwise, on a nearby wildlife refuge where I worked in my teens. They not only become extremely overpopulated, but their appearance changes, too. They become chubby and their legs become shorter, since they don't have to run anymore. They start to look more like cows than deer. They exhibit odd and sometimes disturbing behavior, like killing and EATING(yeah, I know they are herbivores, but this was documented several times)each other's fawns and attacking people visiting the refuge. Overcrowding produces the same sorts of stress-related abberant behavior in wild animals that it does in humans, and deer are no exception. When dead individuals were autopsied, many had died from the same sort of things that kill humans prematurely: heart disease, fatty livers and cancer, all because no hunting was allowed and there were no wild predators left to hunt the deer, so to rectify this situation before some epidemic swept through the huge herd and killed ALL of them, the park had to once again permit hunters to come in and clean house, so to speak. So, hunting definately has its place in a natural scheme of things, even if some people don't like it. Very often the ones who don't are people who live in cities and have had the LEAST amount of contact with animals, wild or otherwise, so they concoct notions about animals based upon their own romanticized ideas of the perfect life.

pitbulllady

[ScrewyOldDame]

I totally agree, PitbullLady, gosh you're smart lol.

Guys! There is nothing wrong with our cows! Maybe Beboots should field that question, I'm no longer Albertan as of this year.

[Beboots]

rathereccentric said:

Guys! There is nothing wrong with our cows! Maybe Beboots should field that question, I'm no longer Albertan as of this year.

Well, I'm woefully uninformed about the whole Alberta-beef cituation (aside from the fact that our beef continues to taste as awesome as ever - just try comparing it to BC beef! No contest!), so I can't really say much. -_-;

...Question for you American people.... I was eating some waffles this morning for breakfast, and I had a random thought. Up here, we always put maple syrup on our pancakes and waffles, so I was wondering what Americans put on theirs? I asked dad, and he just grunted "syrop" (yeah, he was tired too). So what do you guys put on your pancakes? (any non-Canadian feel free to answer this question too).

[Mirage]

I eat my pancakes plain, nothing on them. But most people put syrup on them (sometimes butter or something butter-like, too). The syrup is...I believe maple. Some brands add extra sugar and it's not pure maple syrup; my mom tried buying one that was pure and my brothers didn't care for it, because they don't like anything that's good for you. I know there are brands like Aunt Jemima, Log Cabin, Mrs. Butterworths, etc., and we buy all of them sometimes...I just don't tend to use it. At least, not a lot.

[Beboots]

To me, it's just not the same if it's not real maple syrup (although I admit I will occasionally accept Aunt Jemimas). Have any of you ever had maple sugar? (It's like brown sugar, only maple and a thousand times better tasting) Oooh... Or better yet, maple sugar candy? (made from the same stuff, only hardened and molded into shapes, sorta like marzipan) Or even maple butter? (You can die happy once you've eaten real Québecois maple butter, slightly warm and gooey on a slice of homemade white bread just out of the oven... mmm...)
It's delicious and patriotic! ;D

[pitbulllady]

We put either maple syrup or cane syrup on them, though some put honey. I personally prefer real maple syrup, and there IS no comparison between that and that fake "maple-flavored" stuff! Sadly, I can only have this in very limited amounts, like if I have not had anything at all to eat and my blood sugar is getting low, since developing Type 2 diabetes. Diabetes totally sucks. Maple contains less sucrose and more fructose sugar than cane syrups, so it takes a bit longer to break down into glucose and raise blood sugar levels, so I can eat a bit more of it than the other kinds.
Yes, I've had real maple candy, the kind that melts in your mouth, and it is sooooo good! People associate maple products with Canada, but there is actually a pretty decent maple industry in the Appalachian Mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee, too, and you can buy fresh maple products at roadside produce stands up in the mountains.

pitbulllady

[Mirage]

I've had maple candy; my friend brought a few pieces in to school the other day and offered me one. She's turned me onto a few good things, actually, like butter toffee peanuts as well. ;D

[RandallBoggs]

*looks at all the posts*

Esshhh....

"Call the Empire State Building....tell'em they have competition...."

[Beboots]

pitbulllady1 said:

Yes, I've had real maple candy, the kind that melts in your mouth, and it is sooooo good! People associate maple products with Canada, but there is actually a pretty decent maple industry in the Appalachian Mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee, too, and you can buy fresh maple products at roadside produce stands up in the mountains.

Maple syrup is associated with Canada for a reason, and not just for our flag - that was only introduced in the sixties (before we have Britain's Union Jack), but because 80% of the world's supply of maple syrup comes from the province of Québec alone (I've been there, and have been to an authentic French-Canadian Cabane à Sucre myself, several times).

Oh, and speaking of maple products, has anybody here had tire? (I'm not sure what it's called in English, but in French it's "tire d'érable", I think). It's essentially thick, heated, pure maple syrup dripped onto snow, then rolled onto a stick. You can only really get it once a year, but it's so worth the wait... Mmm... ^_^

[pitbulllady]

Nope, no "tire" for me, since we almost NEVER get snow here! I know that up in the Appalachians, where they DO get snow each year, they DO make this stuff, though they call it "maple snow" which is not terribly original, but then, these people's ancestors didn't come from France, either. Most of 'em came from Scotland, Ireland or Germany. I have had snow with plain sugar on it, though, but it's not the same. Nowadays, what snow does fall is too polluted to eat without risking getting some nasty illness.

pitbulllady

[ScrewyOldDame]

*sigh...relinquishes coveted grail of best beef*

Yeah...B.C. beef doesn't compare. LOL! Gosh...we are stereotypes, Beboots!

Whenever I think "Alberta beef" or "Alberta cow" I always think of Ralph Klien! So strange I associate the two... I'm right wing but...he is just too bad.

LOL! I love Auntie Jemima. That's what I usually have. But - Okay, to prove my stereotype - I love tire! Gosh, total memory of school. Every year at the francophone festical we'd have people come in and let us have a taste. Rolling a stick on top of the syrup on top of the snow! So Christmasy!

[ScrewyOldDame]

The Charter thing reminded me of something.We went to a debating tournament and some of us dressed up. I went as Queen Elizabeth advertising Diet Coke and my friend dressed as John A MacDonald, one of the gentlemen - well he was an exception - who wrote our charter.

He wandered around aimlessly with a bottle of rootbeer in a paper bag spouting the famous drunken John A quote "I motion for you to take off your clothes!"

It was quite a day. Needless to say, that private school doesn't like us. ;D

[lizardgirl]

I just put white sugar on my pancakes, but I only have pancakes on Pancake Day. I've never tried maple syrup, or maple anything. ;D

It sounds like you do things so differently in America. I have pretty much no idea what 'tire' is, but it sounds as though it's associated with snow, and since we do not get snow here, then...yeah. Also...What's Auntie Jemima?;D

[Mirage]

Aunt Jemima's just a brand of syrup in a bottle. ;D Got a picture of the woman who represents "Aunt Jemimia" as its logo...supposedly she makes the syrup.