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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 14, 2005 14:10:32 GMT -5
Boy, IMDb is sure heating up with the latest discussion on the nature of Buddy and Mirage's relationship, and whether or not either of them deserved any sort of redemption! It seems to be an even split between those who think Mirage was just as "evil"(boy, do people love to banter that word around)as Buddy, and those who believe she truelly changed for the better. Most of the posters are male, however, and don't think that they had any more of a relationship beyond employer/employee, and it is also split evenly between those who think that MIRAGE was really in charge of the organization, and those who think Buddy was. What are the opinions here(I already know OUR Mirage's thoughts, since she is a regular poster on IMDb, too)?
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 14, 2005 15:11:38 GMT -5
Well personally.....
Hmmm.....
Hows this.
A "What If" kinda thing.
Say Syndrom was put into prision or something. Mirage would come. They would honestly have time to talk then. When Buddy talks about how he feels after getting beaten, Mirage lets him go.
"It's about time you learned a lesson..." she would say.
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Beboots
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Now, if you'll excuse me, there's a plague in Equatorial Guinea that I have to attend.
Posts: 646
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Post by Beboots on Apr 14, 2005 16:53:54 GMT -5
Well, when I first watched the movie, I thought that Mirage was the employee of Buddy, the second in command/secretary/official hostess type person. She's like a sofisticated grunt, doing all of Buddy's footwork for him. After all, it is she who runs around tracking Frozone and Mr. Incredible, she who infiltrates Insuricare to deliver that message, she who briefs Mr. Incredible, etc. I also gathered that Buddy and Mirage's relationship is more than employer/employee in the scene where she confronts him after he gambled her life. He calls her by some sort of pet-name, doesn't he? Sweety, Sweetheart, something like that.
I also don't htink she's evil; we see her redeem herself, remember? There was that shocked look on her face when she realized there were children aboard that plane, how she saved Buddy's life without thought to what would happen to her when Mr. Incredible made a lunge for Buddy, how she released Mr. Incredible, and that whole "Say please" thing (which I thought was a brilliant line, by the way). She so redeemed herself. On that note, is that last line last time we hear from her?
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Post by Mirage on Apr 14, 2005 17:36:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that's how I feel, Beboots.  As Pitbulllady said, I was expressing my thoughts about the subject on the IMDb, too. He did call Mirage "sweetheart" in that scene. I don't think you call anyone 'sweetheart' and attempt to kiss them when they're just your employee. But yes, the "say please" is the last we hear from her.....so far. On the animators' commentary for that moment, you can so tell that in the minds of most of the people who made the film, she is supposed to be redeemed, or in the process of redeeming herself; one of the guys says, "Yay, Mirage!" I turned on the captions and thought it would be cute to make a little picture with the "yay Mirage" words under her, but sadly...my DVD player won't let me take any more screencaps until I update it, which costs $20....I'm thinking I'll do it one of these days when I just can't stand not being able to screencap any longer. ;D |
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 14, 2005 18:01:40 GMT -5
My computer DVD player has the screen-cap feature, but I honestly haven't had time to sit down and mess with it. I've either been bound by the constraints of work and taking care of my animals after work, or catching up on other work at home that I can't do because of my WORK-work, or I've been sick. This time of year is bad news for free time, if you're a teacher, so hopefully the next six weeks will go by quickly and I will have time to make some screen caps myself. I am also hoping I won't have to use that time to hunt for a new job, since our school district is in a HUGE financial mess and they are talking about teacher lay-offs again, when they have secretaries to ASSISTANTS(which are also secretaries, basically)employed at the District Office, making 70K per year. Oh, well, I digress....
Where was I? Oh, yeah, Buddy 'n Mirage...Yeah, he DOES call her "Sweetheart"(at least it's not "Schmoopsie-Poo"), LOL, and I do NOT think he would have just stood there with that look on his face, that combination of a little boy's "I didn't do NUTHIN...I wasn't MY fault!" with that "Oh, well-guess who's gonna be sleepin' on the sofa for the next few nights" look-if she was no more than an employee, or even if their relationship was nothing more than physical-no emotionaly ties. Naw, it was MUCH more than that. If he did get caught and put in jail, I don't see how Mirage could avoid the same fate, being that she DID play a very major role in his plot to detroy Supers and make himself a hero, and it wasn't forced upon her, either.
Personally, though, I think that Buddy's ties to the US military would get him aquitted, maybe secretly, but SOMEBODY would pull the right strings to get him off the hook. He's too valuable to them to have him stewing in a jail cell somewhere, not just because he's probably their top weapons developer, but because he has so many contacts with, and is trusted by, people they would really, REALLY like to get their hands on, much more so than him. The old "it takes a thief to catch a thief" scenario played out on a global scale, since Buddy also quite likely supplies surplus weapons and technology to some of the world's most notorious terrorist organizations. I'm sure that the US government would be quite happy to work out a little deal-Buddy's freedom in exchange for say, Osama Bin Laden, and if anyone could deliver on that promise, it would be him. BUT, he'd need his top assistant, since she knows all the ins and outs(ooh, sorry, BAD pun there-I'm SO bad)of the organization. I'm sure the government would put him through the prerequisite therapy, get him on some medication, and put in some injunction that he he couldn't have anything to do with Supers, especially the Parrs, and send him on his way, to carry out the deeds that they can't seem to accomplish. Who knows, the young'un just might end up being a hero, after all. Or, he'd achieve the goal of that mission and some high-ranking general would somehow get all the glory, and end up being the next big villain...so many possiblities, here, people; I just gotta find time to write this summer!
pitbulllady
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Post by lizardgirl on Apr 16, 2005 5:40:50 GMT -5
I agree with Beboots, too. She's followed Buddy through thick and thin, but eventually realises that what he's doing is morally wrong, and decides to help out the 'good guys'. Without her, it would've been a lot harder for the Incredibles to have been able to stop Buddy and end it all.
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Post by Mirage on Apr 16, 2005 8:56:26 GMT -5
Without her, it would've been a lot harder for the Incredibles to have been able to stop Buddy and end it all. Yeah, I doubt they'd have been able to reach the city in time to defeat the Omnidroid without her. BUT...I know it never crossed her mind that he would then go show up at their house, and that they'd try to kill him. I want to know her reaction, whether her survives or not...  |
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 16, 2005 9:41:50 GMT -5
I'm getting this thought that Mirage is working for....what was that guy who was in the limo with the Parr family when they were heading home?
Maybe she was going to work for them....
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 16, 2005 11:09:12 GMT -5
That was Rick richarder, if you mean the guy who looks like Richard Nixon(probably intentionally), and is the same one who erases people's memories after they've had a bad encounter with a Super, like he does with Gilbert Huph and Kari McKeon. He is an official, though probably not the "head honcho" of the NSA-National Super Association, which helps relocate Supers and give them new identities, as well as cover up incidents involving Supers-sort of a cross between the "Men In Black" and the CDA and FBI. They are most likely a branch of our CIA, just like the MIB's are. I really don't think that Mirage was working for them, since I don't think they knew about Buddy's plan, let alone so-far success, at elimating many Supers. Another branch of the US government-the military, probably DID know, but covered it up because to have informed anyone would have jeopardized THEIR plans for Buddy. Like I said, a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, and this sort of thing goes on all the time in anything as large, and with as many beuracracies, as the US government.
I honestly don't know what would have happened to Mirage after the movie. If she got caught, she likely would have gotten a long prison term, unless some Pentagon official got her released because of what she would know about Buddy's island operations. On the other hand, she might know TOO much to suit them, and they would want her dead. She would probably be so full of grief and guilt at first that she wouldn't care one way or the other, if Buddy did truelly turn out to be deceased. If he wasn't, and they were reunited somehow, I guess both of them would have gone into hiding for awhile, again, with Pentagon protection. I'm sure that while they would have had one heckuva fight over that containment unit issue and the situation of her releasing the Parrs, they would reconcile and get back together.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 16, 2005 11:13:13 GMT -5
The name of the agent is supposed to read, "Rick D I C KER"; I tried to modify it after I caught my own typo, but the board won't let me, so I had to print a retraction! It seems the censor is upset with part of his name, LOL!
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 16, 2005 11:19:46 GMT -5
Heh...poor program ^_^
Maybe Mirage is on the run like Randall use to be...
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Post by Light Rises on Apr 16, 2005 17:02:03 GMT -5
Maybe Mirage is on the run like Randall use to be... Y'know, Sean, that was exactly what I'd figured Mirage would do. For some reason, I don't see her as turning herself over willingly to the authorities, even considering the fact that she ends up redeeming herself during the course of the movie. Of course, that might all depend upon whether Buddy survived or not, and/or whether she KNOWS if he supposedly "died." Either way, and unless the government got hold of her first, I don't see her sticking around while the "old business" at Nomanisan Island crumbles all around her (if what's going on at the island really IS being shut down...conspiracies are interesting to discuss, no?). Back when I first saw the movie, I use to think that afterwards, Mirage would've gone on to perhaps start off "fresh," trying to eke out a new living while still effectively being on the run, and thus needing to take on a completely new identity. But considering how far her relationship with Buddy seems to have went...well, now I'm not sure at all just WHAT she'd do at that point. ~Light Rises |
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 16, 2005 19:36:28 GMT -5
I guess a lot of whether she would go on the run or not would depend on whether or not Buddy actually DID die, and how long it took her to find out. I would figure that if she found out what happened to him, and he did not in fact, show up soon or contact her to prove otherwise, she would be so depressed that she honestly wouldn't care if she was caught and jailed or not. If, on the other hand, she learned quite soon afterwards that he'd survived, or at least suspected that he could have, she would probably go into hiding and try to rejoin with him later, in a safer locale. Even though she may have realized what a horrible mistake she's made, and repent and everything, unless the government does step in and offer her(and him, if he's still alive)amnesty, she would still be legally accountable for her role in the deaths of many people. I have a feeling that this woman has lived on the run before, so she's an old pro at keeping a low profile when she has to.
pitbulllady
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Post by Light Rises on Apr 16, 2005 19:51:45 GMT -5
I have a feeling that this woman has lived on the run before, so she's an old pro at keeping a low profile when she has to. pitbulllady ...And I think that's probably why I'm thinking she might be on the run now -- because I got that same impression, about Mirage having been on the run before. And who knows? The apprehension and arrest of everyone that was involved with the various Omnidriods and the deaths of the Supers might've begun so quickly, that Mirage had to high-tail it out of Nomanisan Island before she received word confirming either Buddy's death or survival. But I guess we won't know that until if and when a sequel is made, huh? *sighs* ...Brad Bird, how you torture us! *shakes fist* ~Light Rises |
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Post by lizardgirl on Apr 17, 2005 4:23:22 GMT -5
And if she did have to leave the island before knowing about what happened to Buddy...well, I'm sure that a part of her, once she had gone into hiding, would want to find out what had happened, but would she risk her own life for this? I always thought, even though they didn't always show it, there was a real strong bond between Mirage and Buddy, and perhaps this would drive her to try and find out what happened. She certainly can handle herself though- I don't think she's the type of woman who is willing to constantly rely on a man.
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As Pitbulllady said, I was expressing my thoughts about the subject on the IMDb, too. He did call Mirage "sweetheart" in that scene. I don't think you call anyone 'sweetheart' and attempt to kiss them when they're just your employee.
