ScrewyOldDame
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
The classes that wash most are those that work least.
Posts: 402
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Post by ScrewyOldDame on Aug 29, 2005 16:29:28 GMT -5
Nope, Darla wasn't. Certainly. Have a child on a most wanted poster and not that old crab? Give me a break! In fact, I thought she was kind of cute:D * I totally agree with you, PitbullLady, it's nice to see we're on the same page. Without Randall, it would be unlikely Waternoose would get a serious sentence. He did give a confession, but that would give him a minimal sentence for the law he broke. With Randall's testimony, his accusations could be much more than kidnapping. Conspiracy, blackmail... In fact, if he willingly complied, Ran's charges might have been lessened. If you think about it, aren't Mike and Sulley "criminals" just like Waternoose and supposedly Randall? Obviously, in a civilized society like Monstropolis, one wouldn't be allowed to banish any monster he likes into the hellish human world. To me, the thought that they could have killed poor Randall cancels out his deeds. It wasn't manslaughter. It was not agrivated! In the time it would take to carry Randall all the way down, find a proper door and put him in, they would have cooled down. It was a concious crime! Wouldn't attempted murder be more serious than just being a "teddy boy"? If they wanted justice so badly, they could have, logically determined they needed his testimony to give Waternoose what he deserved.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Aug 29, 2005 16:32:02 GMT -5
Darla a villain? NA. She's just one of those really....not-together sort of person....
Well...so far I haven't found anyone blaming Waternoose at all. I mean, NO WHERE....
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 29, 2005 18:52:10 GMT -5
Nope, Darla wasn't. Certainly. Have a child on a most wanted poster and not that old crab? Give me a break! In fact, I thought she was kind of cute:D * I totally agree with you, PitbullLady, it's nice to see we're on the same page. Without Randall, it would be unlikely Waternoose would get a serious sentence. He did give a confession, but that would give him a minimal sentence for the law he broke. With Randall's testimony, his accusations could be much more than kidnapping. Conspiracy, blackmail... In fact, if he willingly complied, Ran's charges might have been lessened. If you think about it, aren't Mike and Sulley "criminals" just like Waternoose and supposedly Randall? Obviously, in a civilized society like Monstropolis, one wouldn't be allowed to banish any monster he likes into the hellish human world. To me, the thought that they could have killed poor Randall cancels out his deeds. It wasn't manslaughter. It was not agrivated! In the time it would take to carry Randall all the way down, find a proper door and put him in, they would have cooled down. It was a concious crime! Wouldn't attempted murder be more serious than just being a "teddy boy"? If they wanted justice so badly, they could have, logically determined they needed his testimony to give Waternoose what he deserved. I've actually discussed this whole incident with a couple of legal experts, and both concurred that what Sulley and Mike did was pre-meditated, and IF their actions resulted in Randall's death, would constitute a charge of First-degree Murder in any US State, and probably most of Canada or other civilized nation as well. No one can argue that they were simply trying to protect Boo at that point by throwing Randall into the Human World, not if they were intending to put HER back into that same world! They threw him into the Human World with the intent that he would be killed by humans, plain and simple, which proves that legal loophole of "intent". They DID have alternatives, but opted out for what HAS to be an illegal one, since I find it impossible to believe that in a city as advanced and modern as Monstropolis, that anyone has the authority and right to banish anyone else to the Human World, for whatever reason! If that WERE the case, there would not be enough of a population left to make a city, since EVERYBODY would have made SOMEONE else mad with them at some point, mad enough to want to banish them at least, so if anyone could carry out that wish upon another monster, well...let's just say OUR world would be totally overrun with monsters! There would not even be anywhere for them to hide, there would be so many; they'd be everwhere! Sulley and Mike broke the law, not only in concealing a human child, but in at LEAST attempted murder, and the fact that Randall, while under orders from Mr. Waternoose, had earlier attempted to murder THEM still does not give them that right or authority. It was not self-defense, either, since Randall had stopped fighting and struggling, and knew that he was beaten. He was no longer a threat at that point, at least not a threat which could not have been dealt with in some other way. Any trial judge is going to require a witness as to Waternoose's involvement, even with his taped "confession", which could very well end up being declared inadmissible as evidence. Waternoose was not told beforehand or informed in any way that he was being taped, after all, and by law, a person must either be informed of such taping OR be part of an intentional "sting" set up by law enforcement, which was not the case with Waternoose. Mike is not, thankfully, a law enforcement agent. Even if the tape is accepted, that alone would not be sufficient evidence for a conviction, not without first-hand witnesses to the whole deal, including the building of the Scream Extractor. There is Fungus, sure, but we don't know how long he'd been involved, or how much he actually knew of Waternoose's involvement, especially if he came into the project later voluntarily or with Randall's insistence. He gave the impression that he thought the whole idea was Randall's alone, and Randall had most likely led him to believe this, either to cover for Waternoose or to stoke his own failing ego. One thing would be certain-whoever is prosecuting the Waternoose case would surely hate to see him walk away, a free monster, due to some technicality like lack of available witnesses, and if Waternoose or anyone mentions Randall in connnection with the events, the prosecution is not going to rest at all until they hear from him. THAT is going to really put Sulley and Mike in the hot seat, since I doubt Sulley would want to see his former father figure go free, either, especially not now that HE has Waternoose's position in the company! Sulley is going to be caught between that infamous Rock and the equally dreaded Hard Place; if Randall can't be found, Waternoose could walk, but if Sulley reveals where Randall actually is, the courts will demand to know how he got there, and how Sullivan knows about it, and we all have seen that Sulley can't lie or hide a secret very well at all! He'll end up spilling the proverbial beans eventually. Talk about a scandal! pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Aug 29, 2005 19:54:23 GMT -5
Your forgetting Pitbulllady. They got away with it. C.D.A. agents knew that Randall, Sullivan, and Wazowski were in the Door Vault, infoed by Waternoose and those who left the Scare Floor. So simply, if any punishment was to be made, it certainly wasn't done. Bias against reptiles who are "involved" in crimes are not given ANY innocence whatsoever....
Well...when I get to Waternoose's trial. Yeah. Randall will testify...and not to mention he has a few "materials" he would use as evidence as well. So yes, his sentence would be lowered...but then again...maybe not by much at all...
It's been a year already....four in reality....you honestly think that the C.D.A. or courts even CARE what happened to Randall? Waternoose may walk, or with a very light sentence, without what Randall has. And faintly....Scare Co. went to the trouble of making the fake Scream Shortage....you think they wouldn't care to waste their time to retrieve one of their CEOs?
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 29, 2005 21:16:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I KNOW that Sullivan and Wazowski got away with it...for NOW. BUT, if a judge rules that Waternoose's taped testimony alone is NOT admissible as evidence enough for a conviction(and that sort of thing DOES happen), and that more witnesses are needed who were there from the inception of the whole Scream Extractor Project, that will jeopardize the prosecution's case. For a prosecuting attorney, NOTHING would be more important than successfully nailing someone high-profile like Henry J. Waternoose. That's how big-time legal careers are made. The more high-profile the defendant, the more money and notoriety the prosecutor attains, and this of course can lead to much greater things, like a successful career in politics later on down the line. You can guarantee that no prosecution team is going to want to let such a case slip right through their fingers(or tentacles, or whatever appendages they happen to have)on a technicality or lack of sufficient witnesses. All they need to know is that one Randall Boggs was directly involved with the case, and they will be searching for him like Indiana Jones looking for the Holy Grail! Once they realize that Mr. Boggs has gone missing, and no one seems to know his whereabouts, they will naturally question the last two individuals known to have been seen with him-Sullivan and Wazowski. We have seen how Sulley reacts to being asked a sensitive question that he doesn't really want to answer. He cannot make up a plausible lie if his life depended on it, and even a mediocre lawyer will know it right away. Sulley will crack under minimal pressure once someone starts badgering him about what happened to his former co-worker. The fact that Randall is reptilian would not matter to the prosecuting team; he's still THE key witness that can make or break their case against Waternoose. Randall is also of very little importance to them as a defendant himself, being a "nobody" in terms of wealth and social status. Any DA prosecuting Waternoose would be more than happy to not only find Randall, but to offer him a plea bargain of a much lesser sentence, if not immunity altother, in exchange for his help in nailing Waternoose. It happens; I've sat on the jury in a trial not too unlike this myself(one of the benefits of being old is that you have had lots of experiences like this. It's about the only benefit I can think of at the moment)in which a prominant businessman was accused of a hit-and-run killing. IF the DA DID decide to later prosecute Randall, given a jury trial, I still don't think that Randall would receive much of a sentence due to what he's been through in the Human World, regardless of his appearance. If things were THAT bad, racially-speaking, he would not have even been able to get his job at the factory in the first place. Again, if HE had a good attorney, one who is good at playing upon people's emotions, he's got a good chance that the toughest penalty he'd have to pay would be community service with a suspended prison sentence, and mandatory counseling(which he NEEDS, badly), and that would especially be true if he got lucky and had a mostly-female jury or a female judge!
Sulley, on the other hand, is now in the unenviable position of being prime lawyer-bait himself. He's now the CEO, he's now rich, so that makes him automatically a target for any up-and-coming attorney seeking to put a really big feather in his career cap. Believe me, his popularity won't matter a rat's @$$ to some hot-shot lawyer. A smart DA will be more than happy to use Randall's testimony to nail Sullivan, too, along with Waternoose...a sure shot to the Capitol or whatever their equivalent to the office of Governor or President or Senator might be! It's not at all far-fetched once you've sat in on or been a witness in a criminal trial, or know a few lawyers yourself.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 29, 2005 21:27:40 GMT -5
"It's been a year already....four in reality....you honestly think that the C.D.A. or courts even CARE what happened to Randall? Waternoose may walk, or with a very light sentence, without what Randall has. And faintly....Scare Co. went to the trouble of making the fake Scream Shortage....you think they wouldn't care to waste their time to retrieve one of their CEOs? [/quote]
Have you ever actually witnessed in a criminal trial, or sat on a jury? Like I said, it won't matter whether or not Scare Co. wants Waternoose to go free or not. It won't matter what the CDA wants. What WILL matter is how badly the District Attorney wants to be Governor, or a Senator, or President, later on down the line! Successfully attaining a conviction of ANY high-profile defendant is what makes or breaks political careers of any lawyer-turned-politician, and let's face it, MOST politicians started out as......you guessed it, LAWYERS. They are willing to go to ANY length to get that conviction, believe me. If that means that they can dig up enough dirt on the CDA to prove corruption in their ranks in the process, that's just one more step to the Monster World's White House out of the way! Any lawyer worthy of the title would leap at the chance to prove corruption in a law enforcement agency. A sharp DA will make the CDA WISH they'd cared a bit more about what happened to a reptilian monster, trust me. This is the sort of thing that will make heads roll, so to speak, and the ones who stand to lose the most are the ones who HAVE the most-Waternoose, Sullivan, and the CDA.
pitbulllady
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Post by viperidae on Aug 30, 2005 6:15:27 GMT -5
What you're saying makes a lot of sense. I don't understand a thing about legal systems but if that's all true there must be some serious corruption in the Monster World in order for Sulley to become CEO. Unless the CDA covered for Mike and Sulley by saying that Randall fell to his death in the door vault and everyone just accepted that. Which still makes the CDA corrupt but it's the only way I could think that it could have happened.
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 30, 2005 10:14:07 GMT -5
The CDA might not have claimed that he fell, but they KNOW that he did not come back, so they know that SOMETHING happened to him. IF he had fallen, there would have to be a body for them to make that claim. Most likely the CDA tried to claim that he simply entered a door into the Human World and could not return, which would still make it look like an "accident" and would not require a body as proof.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Aug 30, 2005 14:17:45 GMT -5
Hah ha....hah hahahahahahaha!
You honestly think that court rooms and the law system in Monstropolis is as clean as ours!? HA! I laugh at that.... Heh heh... I've seen many criminal trials....but those are for humans.... If you only knew....
Scare Co. has more power than you can possibly imagine....they're not just an energy supplier....them....as well as the C.D.A.....have their secrets....
Secrets I know....some of which Cool knows...suprisingly heh heh...
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 30, 2005 20:22:22 GMT -5
Hah ha....hah hahahahahahaha! You honestly think that court rooms and the law system in Monstropolis is as clean as ours!? HA! I laugh at that.... Heh heh... I've seen many criminal trials....but those are for humans.... If you only knew.... Scare Co. has more power than you can possibly imagine....they're not just an energy supplier....them....as well as the C.D.A.....have their secrets.... Secrets I know....some of which Cool knows...suprisingly heh heh... There is no way ANY court system can top that of the "good ole boy" South when it comes to corruption, and this I know first-hand. When I say "seen" a trail, I don't mean on television or movies. I'm talking about having served on a jury, which you must be over 18 to have done, or served as a witness, or worked directly with a prosecuting attorney to bring someone to justice. I've done all of these things. I've been a courtroom artist before they started to allow cameras in the courtroom, so I have witnessed, on more than one occasion, the "inner workings" of our legal system, which here in the deep South, is, shall we say, unique. Our own law enforcement here where I live is as corrupt as it gets, and many of them are people I know personally. One basic thread ties ALL legal prosecutors together, whether they are corrupt as the bowels of Hell itself, or as pure as angels, and that is the desire to further their careers. They can only do this by successfully prosecuting, and attaining conviction of, high-profile defendents. They cannot build or upgrade a career by prosecuting "nobodies", ordinary, everyday people, no matter how unpopular such people may be. The Unviverse just does not work like that. Whoever leads the prosecution of Waternoose's case wants to win, at whatever cost. The more corrupt he or she is, the greater the lenghts he or she will go to in order to obtain a conviction. Such an individual knows the risks, but the benefits, such as a possible successful bid for a major political office, will outweigh them. Believe me, living in the South and working for the EDUCATION SYSTEM, which is corruption at its worst, I know corruption like Michael Jordan knows basketball, having been a victim of it more than once myself! pitbulllady
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Post by lizardgirl on Aug 31, 2005 10:00:42 GMT -5
Anyway, no matter how old a case is, they can still go back to it. Over here, the supreme court are currently revisiting a murder that happened well over a decade ago. Mike and Sulley are not out of trouble yet.
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 31, 2005 11:09:24 GMT -5
Anyway, no matter how old a case is, they can still go back to it. Over here, the supreme court are currently revisiting a murder that happened well over a decade ago. Mike and Sulley are not out of trouble yet. Yep, that's what is called a "cold case" over here. Recently, an 87-year-old man got convicted of racially-motivated murders that took place 47 years ago. Only recently had enough evidence, including DNA, been found to convict him, so no, Mike and Sulley are not off the hook, by any means. pitbulllady
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ScrewyOldDame
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
The classes that wash most are those that work least.
Posts: 402
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Post by ScrewyOldDame on Aug 31, 2005 14:13:41 GMT -5
Hopefully they don't make us an offer we can't refuse, like they did to poor Randall.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Aug 31, 2005 14:22:40 GMT -5
Heh heh... Remember Pitbulllady....the Monster World does adapt many things from us....but they are still a seperate world.... There's allot more than you can think....many of the laws and workings of our world do not apply to their's.... Heh heh...funny....funny indeed....
The Universe? Ha....
We'll see how it turns up court after the M.I. incident....if anyone makes it there that is....
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Post by pitbulllady on Aug 31, 2005 15:45:12 GMT -5
There is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever in the movie-and that is ALL we have to draw upon-that Monsters think or act any different from us humans. There may be some different laws, just as there are in different parts of OUR world, but the fundamental nature of people is a constant. IF the city of Monstropolis was as vile and corrupt as you suggest, it would have shown in the movie. Crime would be running rampant in the streets; the place would be a cesspool, yet that was not the case at all! Conspiracy theories aside(and we have our fair share of those, too), there is no evidence that can even be implied that the monsters were drastically different from us humans, their closest relatives. Every single aspect of the Monster World has its close parallel in ours, right down to basic behavior. Site ONE example of where it doesn't-go ahead and try! If you're gonna suggest some shadowy organization linked to the Supernatural that allegedly manipulates the government and high-ranking officials and businesses, go Googling for "Skull and Bones Society". Our own PRESIDENT is a member, so we have, as I said, more than our own fair share of conspiracy theories. The Monster World has no monopoly on these things, I assure you, and lawyers will be lawyers, I don't care where they live, work or what they look like.
pitbulllady
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