Who is the weakest link?

[randyy]

god.. Why is this website so mean spirited? I mean I love everyone's discussion and such about Randall, but where's the respect for the other characters??

[pitbulllady]

Considering that this thread was about a comment on Sulley being "smart", I have two words: "Zombie Sharks". 'Nuf said.

Sulley and Mike are the ones who have it all; they're the ones promoted most by Disney-Pixar as "heroes", and most people are willing to overlook the fact that they THREW ANOTHER MONSTER INTO THE HUMAN WORLD WITH THE INTENT OF HIM BEING KILLED, that they did this out of no other reason than revenge/vengeance, AND they got away with what would be considered a felony lynching anywhere else! Two wrongs do NOT make a right! They do not deserve to be looked up to as "heroes", and unless they make that right, they do not deserve my respect. They stand now as no more than two vigilantes.

pitbulllady

[randyy]

Mar 9, 2014 15:45:25 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

Considering that this thread was about a comment on Sulley being "smart", I have two words: "Zombie Sharks". 'Nuf said.

Sulley and Mike are the ones who have it all; they're the ones promoted most by Disney-Pixar as "heroes", and most people are willing to overlook the fact that they THREW ANOTHER MONSTER INTO THE HUMAN WORLD WITH THE INTENT OF HIM BEING KILLED, that they did this out of no other reason than revenge/vengeance, AND they got away with what would be considered a felony lynching anywhere else! Two wrongs do NOT make a right! They do not deserve to be looked up to as "heroes", and unless they make that right, they do not deserve my respect. They stand now as no more than two vigilantes.

pitbulllady

um..ok.. That scene at the end of the movie does not make an excuse for everyone on this forum to hate and disrespect other characters. You guys need to get over that. As much as I dislike Randall being exiled by Sulley and Mike at the end, I can't deny the fact that it is the same as what happens to most pixar antagonist. There either killed by the protagonist or experience a form of torcher, so Monsters Inc. is not an exception. So please don't use that, "THREW ANOTHER MONSTER INTO THE HUMAN WORLD WITH THE INTENT OF HIM BEING KILLED" as an excuse. Pixar created this, and if you truly have a problem with this, you need to contact pixar. And stop talking out your anger and frustration on other characters. 

[pitbulllady]

Mar 9, 2014 17:31:10 GMT -5 randyy said:

Mar 9, 2014 15:45:25 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

Considering that this thread was about a comment on Sulley being "smart", I have two words: "Zombie Sharks". 'Nuf said.

Sulley and Mike are the ones who have it all; they're the ones promoted most by Disney-Pixar as "heroes", and most people are willing to overlook the fact that they THREW ANOTHER MONSTER INTO THE HUMAN WORLD WITH THE INTENT OF HIM BEING KILLED, that they did this out of no other reason than revenge/vengeance, AND they got away with what would be considered a felony lynching anywhere else! Two wrongs do NOT make a right! They do not deserve to be looked up to as "heroes", and unless they make that right, they do not deserve my respect. They stand now as no more than two vigilantes.

pitbulllady

um..ok.. That scene at the end of the movie does not make an excuse for everyone on this forum to hate and disrespect other characters. You guys need to get over that. As much as I dislike Randall being exiled by Sulley and Mike at the end, I can't deny the fact that it is the same as what happens to most pixar antagonist. There either killed by the protagonist or experience a form of torcher, so Monsters Inc. is not an exception. So please don't use that, "THREW ANOTHER MONSTER INTO THE HUMAN WORLD WITH THE INTENT OF HIM BEING KILLED" as an excuse. Pixar created this, and if you truly have a problem with this, you need to contact pixar. And stop talking out your anger and frustration on other characters. 

I don't know if you noticed the name of the board or not, but it's NOT the "Mike and Sulley Board". You cannot in any way shape or form defend what they did as being right! Saying that "well this is how Pixar deals with antagonists" is a cop-out, plain and simple, and it is especially wrong is ANOTHER character kills the "antagonist" and it is NOT an act of self-defense, and yet that killer is still held up as being "good" or a "hero" as a result! That is WRONG on some many levels it's not even funny, and it sends a very, very bad message to younger audience members that it's OK to hurt or even kill someone who has wronged you, that it is acceptable, and unfortunately a LOT of young people do actually believe that and have no problem with the notion of revenge being the way to solve problems. I HOPE that Pixar did get that message, and that Dan Scanlon's portrayal of young Randall in MU is a step in the right direction, and that they will eventually make a third "Monsters" movie to set this straight. Believe me, we HAVE taken that concern to Pixar, but until that changes, I will NOT condone what Mike and Sulley did as being right at all! They lowered themselves to Randall's level if not worse and do not deserve any better than what HE got! They are NOT "good guys" or "heroes" and should not be treated as such until they acknowledge that what they did was WRONG. No other protagonists in any Pixar movie killed someone else out of revenge, NONE. Not even Syndrome's gruesome demise in The Incredibles was a revenge killing, and many Pixar movies don't even have anyone being killed. That's Disney's jaded garbage.

pitbulllady

[randyy]

Mar 9, 2014 19:09:25 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

Mar 9, 2014 17:31:10 GMT -5 randyy said:

um..ok.. That scene at the end of the movie does not make an excuse for everyone on this forum to hate and disrespect other characters. You guys need to get over that. As much as I dislike Randall being exiled by Sulley and Mike at the end, I can't deny the fact that it is the same as what happens to most pixar antagonist. There either killed by the protagonist or experience a form of torcher, so Monsters Inc. is not an exception. So please don't use that, "THREW ANOTHER MONSTER INTO THE HUMAN WORLD WITH THE INTENT OF HIM BEING KILLED" as an excuse. Pixar created this, and if you truly have a problem with this, you need to contact pixar. And stop talking out your anger and frustration on other characters. 

I don't know if you noticed the name of the board or not, but it's NOT the "Mike and Sulley Board". You cannot in any way shape or form defend what they did as being right! Saying that "well this is how Pixar deals with antagonists" is a cop-out, plain and simple, and it is especially wrong is ANOTHER character kills the "antagonist" and it is NOT an act of self-defense, and yet that killer is still held up as being "good" or a "hero" as a result! That is WRONG on some many levels it's not even funny, and it sends a very, very bad message to younger audience members that it's OK to hurt or even kill someone who has wronged you, that it is acceptable, and unfortunately a LOT of young people do actually believe that and have no problem with the notion of revenge being the way to solve problems. I HOPE that Pixar did get that message, and that Dan Scanlon's portrayal of young Randall in MU is a step in the right direction, and that they will eventually make a third "Monsters" movie to set this straight. Believe me, we HAVE taken that concern to Pixar, but until that changes, I will NOT condone what Mike and Sulley did as being right at all! They lowered themselves to Randall's level if not worse and do not deserve any better than what HE got! They are NOT "good guys" or "heroes" and should not be treated as such until they acknowledge that what they did was WRONG. No other protagonists in any Pixar movie killed someone else out of revenge, NONE. Not even Syndrome's gruesome demise in The Incredibles was a revenge killing, and many Pixar movies don't even have anyone being killed. That's Disney's jaded garbage.

pitbulllady

My goodness, Pitbullady you must remember this is a movie too. Like I said before, if its really bothering you to point where you feel like you have to attack others who disagree with your opinion, then you need to contact pixar. They are the ones who made the movie. Complaining about the exile and bashing other characters is NOT going to change what happened in the movie.

And when did I say what Mike and Sulley did wasn't wrong? I was just asking why do people on this forum have to criticize other characters. Its just plain hypocritical. I feel like if I point out one flaw about Randall, especially on this site, I would be attacked by other fans like a dog with rabies. There is no such thing as respect on this forum, which is actually pretty sad. Everyone on here makes great analysis on Randal, and I really enjoy reading them. But then there are stupid threads like this, which criticize the other characters for no particular reason. I understand why some people are upset about that exile scene, but some just take their anger way to far. I hope you get what I am trying to say, because I really don't want to start an argument.

[pitbulllady]

What YOU need to keep in mind is that it was DISNEY who put out that information in the original post in this thread stating that neither Mike nor Sulley are as intelligent as Randall, and you apparently objected to that as being a put-down of your favorite characters. Maybe YOU should be contacting Disney and Pixar to complain about that, hmmm? Many of us here, past and present, have let Pixar know exactly how we feel about Randall's treatment in MI, by the way, including myself, and I do actually believe that this is one of the reasons why he was shown in a much-more sympathetic light in MU, while Sulley was portrayed as a privileged slacker, far from being perfect. If you'd taken the time to really read the posts in different forums here, you'd have also discovered that the one who is responsible for making Randall into the "villain", while glorifying Mike and Sulley, wasn't even a Pixar employee. It was the then-CEO of Disney. I am sincerely hoping that a third Monsters movie will eventually fix this problem and give Randall a second chance, which at the same time will at least prove that the two "heroes" aren't also murderers. I would not feel the need to point out their flaws IF it would at least be acknowledged in canon that what they did was wrong, but instead it's just more of the holding them up on a pedestal as though they were perfect and spotless. The real hypocrisy is that Mike and Sulley did things that were just as bad as what Randall did, and not even under the control of someone else, either, but they get rewarded and he gets punished, and not only that, but he gets punished WORST than the one responsible for the whole mess in the first place, Henry J. Waternoose. It IS wrong, plain and simple. If the roles had been reversed and it had been Mike who got thrown into the Human World and beaten and killed, it would STILL be wrong! Letting that be known won't change what happened in MI, but it could influence what happens in any future Monsters movies, and THAT is what I'm pushing for. MU was a step in the right direction, but it's not enough, not yet.

pitbulllady

[randyy]

Mar 11, 2014 19:17:27 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

What YOU need to keep in mind is that it was DISNEY who put out that information in the original post in this thread stating that neither Mike nor Sulley are as intelligent as Randall, and you apparently objected to that as being a put-down of your favorite characters. Maybe YOU should be contacting Disney and Pixar to complain about that, hmmm? Many of us here, past and present, have let Pixar know exactly how we feel about Randall's treatment in MI, by the way, including myself, and I do actually believe that this is one of the reasons why he was shown in a much-more sympathetic light in MU, while Sulley was portrayed as a privileged slacker, far from being perfect. If you'd taken the time to really read the posts in different forums here, you'd have also discovered that the one who is responsible for making Randall into the "villain", while glorifying Mike and Sulley, wasn't even a Pixar employee. It was the then-CEO of Disney. I am sincerely hoping that a third Monsters movie will eventually fix this problem and give Randall a second chance, which at the same time will at least prove that the two "heroes" aren't also murderers. I would not feel the need to point out their flaws IF it would at least be acknowledged in canon that what they did was wrong, but instead it's just more of the holding them up on a pedestal as though they were perfect and spotless. The real hypocrisy is that Mike and Sulley did things that were just as bad as what Randall did, and not even under the control of someone else, either, but they get rewarded and he gets punished, and not only that, but he gets punished WORST than the one responsible for the whole mess in the first place, Henry J. Waternoose. It IS wrong, plain and simple. If the roles had been reversed and it had been Mike who got thrown into the Human World and beaten and killed, it would STILL be wrong! Letting that be known won't change what happened in MI, but it could influence what happens in any future Monsters movies, and THAT is what I'm pushing for. MU was a step in the right direction, but it's not enough, not yet.

pitbulllady

Yeah, that's before I realized that it was information put out by Disney officially, now I just don't care. But there's a huge difference between being slighting offended, and getting extremely angry to point where you feel the need to attack everyone who disagrees with you. And I don't see how the exiling of Randall has to do anything with this thread being created. Bashing Sulley and criticizing his level of intelligence? That is just plain disrespectful to those who do like this character. I just don't think its fair, that I ALWAYS see you defending Randall over the littlest things, so why can't I defend what I like? That's the hypocrisy I am referring to. But like I said before, I really don't want to argue. You seem like a really cool person, so I don't really want to take this discussion any further than it already is. But I'll personally tell you that I love all characters, with the exception of Mr. Waternoose, and I think it would be great to see all of them come to terms with each other. I agree with the fact that a third Monsters movie needs to be made, because I really cant' stand to see MU/MI fandom so, "divided". You know what I mean? 

[conteremo]

While I see what you're saying, Randyy, and agree on some things, this IS a 9 year old topic! Most of the topics on here where I have found mean comments about Sulley and Mike are really old, so it wouldn't surprise me if the people who posted them are either inactive now or have modified their views with age. I don't think they meant to hate on Sulley by saying the things in this thread.

I absolutely love Sulley, he's a sweet guy and he'd make a good dad judging by how he is with Boo. I also find the scene in MU when Squishy mimes like he's roping sulking Sulley into the dance and Sulley finally goes along with it the most adorable scene ever. However, while I don't think Sulley is dumb, he's hardly prodigy/nerd/honors student material. In MU he makes Cs, doesn't try hard in class, and only checks a book out from the library to prop up the billiards table with...it's highly unlikely that he would be made fun of for making good grades and "being smart." Just his family name makes it unlikely he was teased I think, if anything people probably regarded him with respect, and canon shows that people have high expectations of him for it.

I find Mike harder to defend for the most part, because while I think he's funny and I appreciated his story in MU, in hindsight he has a lot of poor qualities...I think he does legitimately care about Sulley, but he can be cruel to him and self-absorbed, to the point that he was so focused on himself that he didn't even notice his best friend was being strangled to death. Yeah, it was humorous, but still. He's the same way with Randy in MU, so focused on himself he doesn't notice or care about Randy's feelings and what he wants to do, while Randy is happy to help him out and support him. Randy's the only one who doesn't say Mike isn't scary or say he can't do it, not even when he's with Johnny, and even in MI he doesn't make fun of Mike for not being a scarer and for leeching off of Sulley, or really for anything superficial...And let's face it, that'd be an easy way to hurt or rile Mike up if Randall wanted to wound him. Randall only says snide things to him about Mike's words and actions, like when Mike couldn't figure out what Randall was getting at in the clock scene, "You idiot!". Sulley is also a really good friend to Mike, like in that scene in MU where he CHASES after a BUS for him and he tells Mike all these good qualities he sees in him. Sulley is really sweet like that.

Since I do like Mike and find his relationship with Sulley touching, I'd like to see well articulated defenses for him, but I haven't found any yet.

[conteremo]

PS: I feel like the only person who actually does like Waternoose

[randyy]

Mar 11, 2014 21:06:45 GMT -5 conteremo said:

While I see what you're saying, Randyy, and agree on some things, this IS a 9 year old topic! Most of the topics on here where I have found mean comments about Sulley and Mike are really old, so it wouldn't surprise me if the people who posted them are either inactive now or have modified their views with age. I don't think they meant to hate on Sulley by saying the things in this thread.

I absolutely love Sulley, he's a sweet guy and he'd make a good dad judging by how he is with Boo. I also find the scene in MU when Squishy mimes like he's roping sulking Sulley into the dance and Sulley finally goes along with it the most adorable scene ever. However, while I don't think Sulley is dumb, he's hardly prodigy/nerd/honors student material. In MU he makes Cs, doesn't try hard in class, and only checks a book out from the library to prop up the billiards table with...it's highly unlikely that he would be made fun of for making good grades and "being smart." Just his family name makes it unlikely he was teased I think, if anything people probably regarded him with respect, and canon shows that people have high expectations of him for it.

I find Mike harder to defend for the most part, because while I think he's funny and I appreciated his story in MU, in hindsight he has a lot of poor qualities...I think he does legitimately care about Sulley, but he can be cruel to him and self-absorbed, to the point that he was so focused on himself that he didn't even notice his best friend was being strangled to death. Yeah, it was humorous, but still. He's the same way with Randy in MU, so focused on himself he doesn't notice or care about Randy's feelings and what he wants to do, while Randy is happy to help him out and support him. Randy's the only one who doesn't say Mike isn't scary or say he can't do it, not even when he's with Johnny, and even in MI he doesn't make fun of Mike for not being a scarer and for leeching off of Sulley, or really for anything superficial...And let's face it, that'd be an easy way to hurt or rile Mike up if Randall wanted to wound him. Randall only says snide things to him about Mike's words and actions, like when Mike couldn't figure out what Randall was getting at in the clock scene, "You idiot!". Sulley is also a really good friend to Mike, like in that scene in MU where he CHASES after a BUS for him and he tells Mike all these good qualities he sees in him. Sulley is really sweet like that.

Since I do like Mike and find his relationship with Sulley touching, I'd like to see well articulated defenses for him, but I haven't found any yet.

I agree to the fullest, maybe everyone did modify their views with age. Well not everyone... but Im glad you were able to give me a straight forward answer instead of trying to excuse why people should create threads like this. With Sulley and Randall as my favorites, like you said, Mike is a bit harder to defend. While he's very comical, Mike is pretty selfish and he did ignore Randall most of the time in MU. Only focusing more on his studying, while forgetting to build social relationships with other characters. But in all, he is a pretty good character to watch.
I felt like everyone's personalities were so flipped in MU that I sometimes find it hard to believe that those are the same characters in the MI. While ten years is a pretty long time, Its still a little bit unbelievable about the fact that they changed so much. Mike suddenly a A student, Sulley a introverted, is suddenly extroverted, but for Randall... while his personality in Mu is the opposite from his Mi one, him being a bit shy when he was younger does pretty much make sense. 

[conteremo]

Yeah, there were aspects of Sulley's characterization in MU especially that seemed off. Deep down he's the same guy I think, as shown during the lake scene when he says he's scared. He just put on a mask of confidence, but throughout most of MU he was quiet and brooding, and he was willing to engage and have fun with the "uncool" kids eventually, like in the scene I mentioned where he dances with Squishy. He acted like the quiet, brooding, "cool" type, but he cracked easily.

Mike is largely the same, minus, like you said, the fact that he is a studious all-A student. In MI he doesn't even do his paperwork, which is weird considering how much work he did in MU to become a scarer in the first place. But that might be it, in MI he technically isn't a scarer, so while he's willing to put a lot of effort into that one dream in MU, and he's breathing over Sulley's shoulder in MI to make him the best scarer, and he's highly competitive against Randall for the top position, he doesn't care about his duties that don't directly have to do with scaring. I imagine that Mike would be a slacker in school when it DOESN'T have to do with scaring. If he wants it, he puts his all into it, and if he doesn't, he'll neglect it.

I think Randy's characterization in MU is consistent with MI. I hadn't watched MI in a loong time when I first watched MU, so I bought MI to compare, and Randall is just as geeky and socially awkward in MI as he is in MU. On top of that, even though he's a little obnoxious towards Mike and pulls pranks on him, and calls him an idiot for saying "painted," he never made fun of Mike for his appearance or for not being scary, which is the same as in MU. Randall is one of the only characters who didn't make fun of Mike for the way he looked. I read Pitbulllady's post about the psychologist who analyzed the characters before MU came out, and what she said about Randall from MI is accurate even in MU. She pinpointed his lack of self confidence even before it was spelled out for everyone in MU.