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Post by mentalguru on Dec 5, 2009 5:44:27 GMT -5
As PBL said a little while ago, it's a true saying that a fake friend is more dangerous than an upfront enemy.
It's not someone you can trust or know where you stand regarding them. Also because your mind may not exactly forget about the more pleasent of the two faces they have, even when the other is in front of you. Their nicer side, the one they may show more in public, is gnawing at the back of your head, not physically but mentally ever present, and even though you KNOW it's stupid to trust them, a part of you is slightly desperate perhaps that his TRUE self is the fake one. You have an attachment to that nicer face.
Perhaps an attachment like that of a parent, either an extra one, or even a replacement.
In the cold light of day, on your own you can tell yourself that this is stupid- they can't be trusted- but seeing him and talking to him, your hopeful and perhaps childish side returns.
And perhaps a part of you wonders if they have more than two faces to begin with.
Basically Waternoose is not someone you can predict. He can hug you with one arm and then stab you in the back with another. He has loyalty... but to himself and the company primarily. He can experience some amount of affection, but it pales in the sight of what he really wants. Stand in his way and he'll get rid of you- he even says this in the confession scene. Fans still think he's a nice guy, forgetting or not realising it was his plan, and Randall was in NO position to threaten or force a CEO, and as I mentioned before, that's his true power. If he had more patience, no telling really what the guy could do.
What's really terrible about Waternoose in regards Sulley is that he made the guy LOVE him, enough for him to say he was like a father and yet it eventually becomes clear that it is more or less one sided- he does not care that he banished SULLEY but his 'Top Scarer' all the while blaming Randall for it while taking the opportunity to pore more salt on Randall's own wounds into the bargin. Perhaps there is some true affection, but it's not enough and it never detracts from the fact that when it gets to the bare bones- Sulley was expendable in the grand scheme of things. Regretable on some level that he 'had to' do it, but not enough regret it seems to even consider offering Sulley or Mike something to stay quiet. Then again, perhaps he know Sulley too well for that. I suposse it could be said his apparent interest for employees on the scare floor is very self serving- if he knows his employees a bit better, not only does he keep up a facade, but he also knows their personalities, how they react, and how to use that to his advantage, he can learn things than may not be on the employee files, which could be useful.
Sulley himself, as mentioned myself on another thread, drifts into dangerous territory when he banishes Randall, a 'father like son' kind of deal- plus he now holds a CEO position.
So what now? Will he wonder if by banishing Randall because he was angry regarding something HE cared about (Boo), he is like Waternoose, who did it for HIMSELF and the COMPANY? I doubt myself that Sulley will become exactly like Waternoose, but it's still a possible fear he might eventually have. If he eventually feels guilt for what happened with Randall (and keeping him in character, I think he must eventually do so, regardless of the comics), as the stress of CEO eventually comes up will he look at Boo and wonder if he would ever do to HER what Waternoose did to him? That thought must be absolutley terrifying to contemplate. Even though he is not her parent, the similar attachment is there. But rather like a person who was betrayed by a parent in some untold way, they are still likely to hold the fear they'll make the same mistakes or bad choices. Or that they've already made them.
It's also very likely in my opinion, that Sulley, without experience was partially made CEO due to IMAGE- he has the bumbling Uncle kind of apperance, like Waternoose had the kindly Grandfather image- the family image of the company had been ruined so that may have played a part, as well as the fact he was providing a new energy source. I'm not sure how else it would make sense. While far from stupid, he does not have the experience, plus he is not that good at lying. Although the 'confession scene' with Waternoose, shows he can act on some level... but that was under extreme circumstances, and during the company play he did not look happy at all. Perhaps because it was likely Mike's idea, and with the CDA not wanting people to know he KNOWS this probably isn't a good idea- it's my opinion the play was made out to the employees as pure fiction, taking a 'disaster' of the day and spinning a story of it.
A part of me enjoys the Randall-Sulley parallels which can be drawn (not to mention Boo-Randall parallels), but Waternoose-Sulley parallels and interactions are also interesting, albeit creepy. So thoughts?
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 5, 2009 11:21:09 GMT -5
That relationship is creepy indeed, and it's very interesting how you brought up the parallels between Sulley's fatherly relationship with Boo, who is not his biological child, and Waternoose's own father relationship with HIM, even though they weren't related, either. Sulley had been betrayed not just by someone who was his superior(boss), as Randall had, or even by a friend, but by someone he considered as family, which is the highest level of trust you can have in someone. As the stress of his current position builds and situations inevitably arise that threaten that position or the company's integrity, you have to wonder if he'll be willing, as Waternoose was, to throw certain people under the bus in order to hang onto that power and to the company. Boo, still apparently being considered taboo(no pun) or "persona non gratae" in the factory, would certainly be a liability for him. At some point it would seem that unless monsters' attitudees towards human children change drastically, publically and world-wide, and the laws against children being brought into the Monster World are also drastically changed accordingly, that Sulley will eventually have to make a choice: his job, or Boo. The more he has at stake the more he has to lose if he gets caught.
pitbulllady
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 5, 2009 16:21:40 GMT -5
Yes, I could see him perhaps being put in the spot about making that choice. But Sulley would probably be more likely to choose Boo then what Waternoose did... but he'd struggle with the choice at first in my view. And yeah, it's a sort of interest to me that while none of them are related they do have the kind of Grandparent-Father-daughter kind of thing going on in the movie...
Sulley in his own way had to put 'being a parent' above 'being your parent's son', not that of course, after the betrayal, that was an exactly DIFFICULT choice, but I think you get what I mean.
Boo falls for the Waternoose image too... who does she run to for 'protection' when Sulley scares her? WATERNOOSE! She runs to 'Grandpa'.(Oh Honey, if you had only KNOWN).
Plus an interesting idea- what about her ACTUAL parents? What if they become a buffer or something which seperates him from Boo? Thing is I kind of think Boo has become someone/something to Sulley even HIGHER perhaps then Waternoose held the company.
Oh dear. That could get messy.
I more or less see Sulley as being the kind of guy who LIKES kids, and perhaps even thought of having some of his own but... the right girl never came along or he might even be all out asexual (believe me, it's a sexual orientation, thought I was myself for a while- turned out I was just a late bloomer!- Basically they are not attracted to either gender like that, which somehow fits how I view Sulley... either that or a straight guy with a very low 'drive').
Then Boo came along- just because someone DOESN'T have kids doesn't mean that even subconciously, they don't want one. Boo I think was partially that kind of thing Sulley was missing. Not all people need/want kids... but Sulley strikes me as the type who would want one regardless. Even if this desire was only in the back of his mind, I think it exists. After all, why do gay people want to adopt/go for surrogates/IVF? 'Asexuals' can go through this too, not to mention single straight people. Because they wants kids too. Sexual orientation or marital status does not need to dictate whether or not you want a child after all.
I like little kids alot myself most of the time, plus I have the mothering issues in some cases.
(Example after my friend the 'Randall' to my 'Sulley'- after her accident, and my guilt because I kind of has WISHED something bad had happened, I practically covered her in cotton wool... got a bit much for her, as was evident when she blew up at me after a while of this happening. But it more or less helped air things and made us actual friends eventually rather then me just being her guilt ridden 'babysitter'. Little kids and dogs well..with me, even the one's people/adults 'warn' you about as being trouble... most of them seem to like me and go up to talk to ME for some reason. I do not know WHY. And although I DO like kids, I am often apprehensive around them at first, even if they are good kids <That's one thing M.I. got right, little kids can be unnerving at first>... with dogs I'm immediately fine though no matter what. XD. I never really had the 'breed issues' for long in terms of dogs- I mean my 'Randall' had a Rottweiler! I'm just always so confused because even when I'm not enthusiastic or in a good mood... kids still want to talk to me. Huh?! Don't get it. At all. Still can't complain, sometimes it cheers me up.).
Dangerous, very dangerous for Sulley however to have Boo and to keep visiting her, the authorities would not be happy either- he could be risking Monster World security for another thing- he could be risking far more than his job!
Plus as mentioned... what if Boo's parents 'stand in his way'? I doubt they'd be happy with this arrangement somehow. Sulley could end up doing something incredibly rash (again).... Not PHYSICAL rashness against her parents you understand, but still something he doesn't think through, on the spur of the moment and not something he should do at all.
Which could involve the human world and a certain other monster if it happens.
Waternoose... well he had his parents obviously at one point but no evidence of a WIFE or KIDS. Seems like he more or less 'adopted' Sulley, but to be quite frank, I doubt he was the first to be taken under his wing, and perhaps even RANDALL got some good attention once... then he got shafted for the new 'addition' of the family and even worse things happened.
Parents picking favourites is usually unintentional though... I doubt it in this case.
Waternoose I think might have a habit of 'collecting' people I think. He's a CEO, but he acts... friendly. He has respect and people like him. They don't FEAR him... until the true colours show that is.
I can't even remember the novel or even tv show I'm thinking about but he DOES remind me of some female character I remember hearing about- difference was she gave BIRTH to thses kids just to further her own ends- you know she delibrately set a course fotr them to get what she wanted. I do remember a 'favourite' completely unaware of the manipulations, and another brother who was deeply jealous, not to mention a younger sister who knew knew the real score- who rebelled in tiny ways but not completely. Bit creepy... can't remember the character exactly, it's been a while... mmm. Might have even been a fanfic. I do not know.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 5, 2009 19:35:31 GMT -5
Is...this a discussion or a story? 0_0 *laughs* It's ok, like a little mystic ^0^ Of course with someone like Waternoose, he'd like to do those two things at the same time.
Sullivan won't become Waternoose. However, it will be a tough road for him not to become something like him. As CEO, he's entailed to the duties and responsibilites BECAUSE of HIS discovery. And since he for some unneeded reason (we all know why), doesn't want to scare kids anymore, he has the desire to follow through with laughter. But it's just that that will tilt him. He's "revolutionized" the scare industry. And in order to keep it that way, he has to fight for it and work at it. And that will tip the balance to either him staying himself, or becoming like Waternoose. ------------- Can picture, if he knew...Boo's father taking an axe to Boo's closet door out of some rage against Sullivan...
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 7, 2009 14:38:07 GMT -5
Heh. Maybe a little RB. Waternoose and Sulley's actions are interesting to draw parallels on. Sulley IS the main character and this is generally what happens alot- it is possible to draw certain similarities with other characters- Waternoose, Randall and even Boo herself with regards Sulley. From these first parallels, I eventually also went down the Boo-Randall parallels and heck even MIKE in some (small) respects, however since we effectively do see more of Sulley as the main character, it is certainly easier to connect him and look at similarities and differences there are or might be to other characters then there might be in reagrds to others.
Sulley is the only person I can draw direct parallels to Waternoose from. The one's between Randall-Waternoose are minimal, in their case, it's merely that they know the scream extractor plot for the most part. For Sulley and Waternoose however- they are both CEOs at some point, they are viewed as the nice guys and are popular and well liked by people, they sort of 'adopt' someone who is not their flesh and blood. They give a parental image and relationship with someone (granted Sulley's with Boo is more genuine). They have secrets which are questionable in legality...They can go too far when it comes to something they deeply care about (Waternoose- his company and probably his reputation/money/general status*), Sulley (Boo... and the company will probably become increasingly more important as time goes on for him, though I'm thinking Boo, in his heart -yes, I'm a sap- will remain top when it comes to the bare bones).
Even both have insane physical strength. (Waternoose's slap threw Sulley across the ROOM. Or is Sulley just particulary unbalanced in terms of his centre of gravity?)
Waternoose however is of course alot more manipulative. (* Perhaps a similarity with Randall too- but Randall was also thinking about his own freedom/safety too, not to mention the fact he genuinely there was no love lost between Randall and his rivals... unlike with Waternoose and Sulley, at least from Sulley's end.).
Mike and Sulley's relationship in of itself is jarring for me- I've mentioned before that I've been in Sulley's position regarding a 'Mike' in my life when I was a teen. In that case I want Mike to shape up a bit more, Sulley to not depend too much on Mike for 'advice'. Granted, in some respects he DOES do this (regarding looking out for Boo), but in other ways he fails. It just seems way too likely to me that the exile was Mike's idea.
Yeah. Odds being what they are- most people raising children as heterosexual couples and are still married, not to mention the fact Boo seems more or less a happy and cheerful child. Her father, (who in all likelihood is in her life in SOME form), does probably care for her. Judging from her room she is well provided for.
A part of the rage Boo's father could have may not be just about keeping his daughter safe (though that would be a large reason), but if he DID find out that Sulley's and Boo's/Mary's relationship was rather like a father-daughter one... there would be concern, but also probably jealousy. Perhaps on BOTH ends. Oh if those two ever met...
Boo's own real biological father is an interesting area to explore in some fashion, as well as SULLEY'S biological father- it's possible for instance that Sulley's father and Waternoose were friends. It's possible that Sulley's father is dead (or perhaps not). It's possible even that Sulley and his real father are at odds at eachother for some reason we are never told- hence him calling Waternoose 'like a father'. Or maybe it's simply because Sulley is further from his home town than he once was now as a scarer. And often, such people will find some kind of surrogate if it's not a place they are used to or a distance from family they have experienced much before.
But what about his real father? Is Sulley's father still around? Are they even close? Or is Sulley more his mother's son? She is the one who calls up when the advertisement is shown, but then it is generally more likely that the mother does (not to be stereotypical or anything...).
But considering they see the advertisement, how far away to they live from Sulley in the first place? Is Monstropolis ALSO the name of perhaps the equivilant of a state in the USA that the city is in? Perhaps only a few hours away...
Waternoose as either a replacement or extra father utterly failed and betrayed Sulley in the end. And he did it delibrately. I could see Sulley fearing accidently betraying Boo in some fashion, which could raise interesting issues if he eventually does experience guilt surrounding Randall- would he feel he was betraying Boo, considering the plans involving her? Would he feel guilt for in essence feeling guilty?
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Post by sgtyayap on Dec 7, 2009 15:09:27 GMT -5
Indeed. It DOES seem that the image of Waternoose Sulley had of him only made him more hurt when he was banished. The charade was going on for too long for the reaction to be mild.
Makes me wonder whether Boo will feel a similar way about Sulley when she realizes what she assisted in doing to Randall.
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 7, 2009 15:55:00 GMT -5
She WAS only two and a half, she shouldn't really be held accountable-... but with my own version of Boo, I'm not sure she'd be happy when older she is told the story and can take it in more.
Heh. In the second of two one-shots I've planned (both unrelated to my multi-chapter fic), one mentions Mike becoming... disconcerted with Boo at age 7/8, she has been told occasionally the story of how they met when asked. And she'd have probably asked what happened to Randall (being curious), when she got a little bit older to comprehend things a bit more. Now she WOULDN'T experience complete and utter moral outrage/guilt at it as soon as she was told what really happened with Randall. She's a little kid you know?
She'd mostly be confused I feel perhaps, at best. As a small kid, she would probably put Sulley and Mike on a pedestal somewhat- particulary Sulley, so she wouldn't immediately jump down his throat and go 'THAT WAS WRONG!' I think (in her mind, at least) it would more go her thinking like this:
'It... feels wrong to me, but everyone else seems to thinks it's right... is there something wrong with me? Am I wrong?'
She's going to have questions though, and she's going to be pretty outspoken, and not really that shy in my opinion though. So she'd VOICE these fears probably to them that there is 'something wrong with her' or her confusion. Particulary to Sulley, and even little things she's learned from people- either teachers/classmates/parents/other people are going to be relayed and told to Sulley when they meet up. Which could result in anything.
For instance, suppose Boo punches some kid after he takes a friends toy, even after he gives it back. Really hard. And she gets punished for it and told that was wrong. This could have any number of ramifications and result in more questions during visits and, well, almost anything could happen.
In the one-shot... Mike becomes disgruntled because Boo is starting to result in some accumulation or revealance of Sulley's guilty thoughts, either through directly asking or even INDIRECTLY perhaps resulting in things seemingly making his best friend's mind wirr- and he doesn't like it much.
Plus she is the rteason Celia eventually found out in a way. And it caused ALOT of trouble, and almost blew the secret not to mention his relationship. Celia, is also becoming closer and more sympathetic to Sulley, through Boo anyway, with her maternal urges. And the relationship between Mike and Celia is more strained- perhaps even on the point of breaking apart completely one day, but yeah, Mike is also being a paranoid loser- thinking there might be something going down between them (There isn't. Or at least nothing they are pursuing anyway).
For the record- it IS mostly humour, and this fear of Mike's is only touched upon briefly. Boo's 'awkward question' when he next visits her (when Sulley ask since he can't himself) is something else entirely. It's more of a slightly serious 'nudge' in an overall humorous one-shot involving only Sulley, Boo and Mike- Randall is only mentioned in that instance of Boo having asked 'awkward questions' before. Mike doesn't have any justification to be angry or mad at her, and he's honestly more irritated and worried for various reasons over the possible effects the questions may have than really mad in fact; and Boo's questions are not accusatory and never really are- but purely innocent and curious and well as with just a touch of worry that as I said, that there is something wrong with HER than them for feeling this way.
Sulley is naturally not going to be happy in the first place that the girl is feeling that there is something wrong with her, which would probably increase his guilt further. Once again, this is only touched upon.
The other one shot is more about when they shot the advertisement of Monsters Inc- Sulley centric but with ALOT of Randall in that one. Set a few months before the events of the movie.
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 7, 2009 19:43:03 GMT -5
Keep in mind, though, that Boo will have no memory whatsoever of what happened, back when she was two. Children's brains simply are not developed to the point at that age that they can retain memories of things that occurred before they are three years old. The only "memories" she will have are false memories, planted there by Mike and Sulley repeatedly telling her what happened, and who this Randall guy was and what he did, and of course, it will be with their slant on it, which means that they will most likely paint a picture of Randall as pure evil incarnate, IF(and this is a BIG "IF")they bring it up at all. If Sulley himself begins to feel any regret, he will most likely be content never to mention that "R" word again, and to let Boo simply forget everything that happened.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 7, 2009 19:53:25 GMT -5
*chuckles* Seems you guys are forgetting a "little something" that Boo has that will make her remember who Randall was. Ahh...but I'll run on that in the story I'm making.
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 8, 2009 2:20:04 GMT -5
Oh, she's not going to really REMEMBER Randall at all PBL... but Mike is a wrinkle in Sulley's idea if he doesn't want to mention Randall or let it be completely buried.
The company play speaks volumes and is the perfect representation of Mike's personality- he likes to boast, often adding frills, exaggerations and things to make him LOOK good. I'm sure, maybe when she was at her SMALLEST and first told what happened to Randall (whether Sulley approved or not), I'm guessing MIKE would tell her. She might even nod in agreement with him. And even cheer. She WOULD believe him evil incarnate. And so he may repeat the story, hoping for more praise. Mike's ego is the type which is never really satisfied. I think he'd like Boo for this reason, at first (not to mention the fact she is related to why he now is top 'laughter collector'). She trusts BOTH Mike's and Sulley's word as she gets older- sure Boo is a smart kid, and even displays some skepticism regarding Mike when he's about to shove her through a door, but over time, Sulley and Mike are going to be regarded with alot of trust in her eyes.
But when she starts with the questions, Mike isn't going to be as keen.
Until (if) THAT happens however, Mike would probably be more or less happy to regale the whole story- including the banishment- which he probably had to leave out of the play. He'd ENJOY the praise, and I'm sure, the odd time he's been convinced by Sulley to visit Boo by himself- mostly it's just Sulley who goes, and sometimes both, but Mike sometimes goes the odd time if Sulley can't make it. And if he's BORED, then is attitude is probably: why the heck not? She's easy enough to entertain, and it's almost like training for him- and the 'story' helps boost his ego, when he knows he can't really boast to anyone else about the exile.
But the fact is- Mike and Sulley while a large part of her life, are not her WHOLE life. The kid has her biological parents, and eventually school and other areas which are going to have an effect on her development and perception of things. What if for instance, a teacher tells her there is really NO such things as 'evil incarnate'? What if she's told the Martin Luther King quote, or some form of it (like she is in connections)? She probably would not make the immediate connection conciously, but it's just a thing I've been pondering- she is NOT going to be home schooled or kept 'locked away' from the rest of the human world, completely given the moral basis of Sulley and Mike Wazowski (tm). Other people have an effect. She is not going to become their clone.
But she does have similarities with Sulley in 'Connections' really- and she's going to contend with someone who is almost a combination of a Waternoose and Randall (mostly the latter than the former though, more a W only in the sense that she trusted them)- so how will she deal with that? She won't have the means to preform an exile like he did... but trust me when she's going to be unusually cold and cruel. Not physically exactly but there will be a fight, her cruelty mostly stems into what she says. Not that it is completely unwarrented that is. Then again, someone she cares about is going to be hurt (or worse) rather than ALMOST hurt and it is going to be rather freakish what the W/Randall says to her (in Boo's view anyway) at the end of the confrontation. Oh the bitter irony. More or less a generation repeating the mistakes of the previous almost... only in a different way.
And trust me, it is definitly possible for a kid to feel pity and fear at the same time. My OWN monster when I was pretty young, well she (yes, a she) in my mind stole little kids away (trust me this was years before m.i.), she was this giant blob type of monster from a character on a tv show, I believe she was based upon in my imaginings but... she always seemed lonely at the same time.
No doubt about it, this monster was almost like a 'demon' I guess you could say, it wanted to drag me to a 'dark place' for instance. But still I couldn't help but feel a rediculous combination of revulsion, fear and pity to wards her/it.
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 8, 2009 13:47:54 GMT -5
Do you mean her 'pictures' RB by the way?
It's silly, but I find it cute Boo drew Randall, even though it was probably just to show what she was afarid of. Boo, produced the very first ever Randall 'fan' art (well not 'fan' but...).
I think other things could happen- perhaps Boo having a larger than average adversion to reptiles for a while. (Yes Randall isn't a reptile I know, but he looks like one.)
(That's another oneshot I've thought of- but it reads more or less like an ORIGINAL story, since only Boo is in it and the monsters aren't even mentioned at all- just a teacher and a zookeeper and a field trip. And Boo starting to get over her reptile adversion. So don't know if I'll ever write or post it.
"...they're slimy, icky and gross!" she exclaimed.
"Oh come on now. That's not true, besides, you'll hurt his feelings" the man said with a fake tremble of a lip as well as a dubious worried glance at the lizard currently in his arms.
The teacher rolled her eyes at the display but smiled all the same.
The reptile in question, really did not seem all that bothered by the proclamation from the young girl. However it did seem to turn its head to look at her. Whether he could really hear her or it was just her imagination, the young woman really couldn't discern. Although not afraid of reptiles, she had never been that interested in them in general until now.
Regardless, it slightly amused her when lazily, it also flicked a tongue at her student.
The little girl blinked uncertainly and stuck out her own tongue back with a scowl on her face as she stood half hidden behind the teacher.
She hated lizards even more than snakes.'
I think, getting back to Waternoose... well I just think the Sulley will honestly fear becoming like him in some way. They have similarities to be certain...but Sulley is more genuine in his affections.
Sulley does act desperate doesn't he?
"It doesn't have to be this way!". Sulley is NOT that great an actor even under pressure- he could lie some yes (about Boo being home), but not alot. His desperation feels real there to me. It's just that he had no emotional attachment on that level for Randall at all, so he was definitly more prepared to take anger out on him, even if some of that want for revenge was also caused directly by Waternoose himself. You can see that from the company play he is not great at acting, or when Mike always seems to jump in with a lie when talking to Randall. Mike has no confidence in Sulley's ability to lie. And I think he may have a good reason for it.
Sure 'practice makes perfect' I suppose, but this is ANOTHER problem with Sulley being CEO.
Now Mike has acting talent. When he tries anyway. Sulley, not as much.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Dec 8, 2009 20:21:47 GMT -5
*claps hands* Right on the nose there Guru. I'm impressed.
Boo didn't seem to make it to show she was afraid of him. In fact, it seemed she had drew him before and after several other drawings. So while she wasn't the first thing on her mind, he wasn't the last.
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 8, 2009 21:12:46 GMT -5
*claps hands* Right on the nose there Guru. I'm impressed. Boo didn't seem to make it to show she was afraid of him. In fact, it seemed she had drew him before and after several other drawings. So while she wasn't the first thing on her mind, he wasn't the last. But the thing is with those pictures that she drew when she was two, she will still have no idea who or what those are pictures of UNLESS someone continually reminds her. Should she come across one of the pictures when she is say, six or seven, all she will know is that it was something she drew back when she was a "baby". She won't recall WHY she drew them, or what they showed, only that it is some sort of "creature" which she will most likely assume was something she imagined. She MIGHT be able to make a connection(no pun intended...again)between the odd appearance of the "creature" and the denizens of the Monster World, IF Sulley has continued to visit her and she's now aware that there is indeed a whole different Earth on the other side of the closet door, inhabited by such beings, but she won't be able to put a name to that drawing or associate it with specific events, unless again, someone keeps reminding her ..."oh, that's Randall. He's BAD! He tried to hurt you, remember? And we beat him up and threw him through a door so some people could eat him up! Now, he's gone forever and can't hurt you anymore! Yay for us, right?" In that case, her memory will largely be a "false memory", one created and "planted" in her mind by someone else. If, for whatever reason, the pictures of Randall are never mentioned, and she finds them years later, she'll have no clue as to what their meaning is. Her parents will probably be the only ones providing any clue, as in " Oh, you used to draw things like that all the time when you were little! I guess it was one of your Imaginary Friends. And so it will be. What she "remembers", in other words, will be the result of what others tell her, not actual memories. pitbulllady
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 9, 2009 1:59:02 GMT -5
Yeah... Unless (Mike?) tells her/reminds her for a while, I doubt she'd 'remember' (or as cose as she could get to it). Imaginary friend? THAT would be pretty funny if she met him then mas a kid.
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Post by mentalguru on Dec 10, 2009 5:32:50 GMT -5
I sometimes also wonder though whether Mike and Sulley really could know exactly where they put him- they don't have a card, and perhaps doors ARE arranged by section according to country and time zone but... how would Mike know that? He's not that smart.
Considering he did not know that it would be LUNCH and his terrible record with paperwork, I kind of doubt Mike's abilities to know.
It's possible they knew it was AMERICA. It's possible though that the trailer was checked and they knew people were in it though, or that it was a swamp- but I somewhat doubt they automatically would say "Oh Lousiana! They eat gators there! Yay!", after all, it's not the only swamp in the world, and I doubt from a single glance they could get where it was- they wouldn't check outside the trailer...Plus, how much do monsters know about humans really? It's possible however that they knew people wouldn't be really AFRAID of reptilian style monsters in that sort of area- probably because after all monsters are set up with specific children to scare, and Randall's kind of monster... Mmmm. But I doubt they'd know alot of details about their eating habits somehow. I mean that's actually an obscure detail you wouldn't know unless you'd looked into the culture at all. I didn't know about it at all until I was told here. How many cultures are there in the human world after all? Doubtful they'd know them all, even one. They probably consider humans as like the chimps in the tea ads- animals making a play at being 'monsters' with some intelligence, but not on their level. Really the only thing they'd be interested in would be whether the scaring abilities of a praticular kind of monster are affected, they probably would care for the reason when it comes to setting up monsters with kids- only that Randall's 'kind' for whatever reason, are not set up in that particular area, he's not considered 'scary' enough. So it probably seems like a good choice.
But there were probably strong hints that it WAS America- probably a flag or something, as well as the fact it was a trailer, if they took a quick glance. Which would be alot more difficult to get through another door, than Nepal, where security is less tight for instance...
They probably know some things as time goes on, like even warning signs- certain signs which could be dangerous. They might know general climates. They DO study geography on some levekl of the human world it seems, but how much?
Like I said- Lousiana eating gators = obscure, random fact unless you are from that area. WE were taught about America in some sense in Geography at school, but it was just one country in many. (In fact we learned more in history- but even then, we mostly were learning what was happening in Germany during the two world wars, not to mention BOTH Russia and America during the cold war), Honestly we learned alot more about our own. Neo-colonolism and how we screwed up alot of countries because of the empire (India) and how some got better (America). But very GENERAL. You could NOT learn every single little thing.
Monsters probably learn some general genoraphy about both worlds, but how likely is it that they'd know people of that specific would eat gators? Or would even be stupid or blind enough to mistake an Eight limbed purple monster for a gator?
It's not IMPOSSIBLE perhaps, but unlikely...
Unless of course, it was one random fact Mike happened to know but kept to himself. He does display a certain amount of racist attitude... so would he take joy out of that idea?
Rather disturbing, even for Mike, but possible nonetheless.
If the knowledge of Lousiana eating habits is even known in the monster world at all, I could see Mike being the kind of kid who although bad at the subject, lked some details which interested him. Rather like the kid who hates learning history but loves all the GORE of some of the stories. They like specific facts. And sometimes these are facts I have never heard before. Still I may know more than them about some OTHER topic. Apparently, I've been told in relation to the Cold War (when I was learning it as a teen), I knew MORE about the Russian side and facts than an American kid who was being taught on the same subject- but THEY knew more detail about the American side and statistics.
I''ve also met people who know next to nothing about history, even compared to me (though I do know some), yet take relish in details of the kind of people they don't like, mostly on the net. A kind of "I hate history/Geogaphy... but ooh isn't this interesting!"
(I don't get these people really. If I hadn't studied Biology- I would have studied either of those two subjects. They're really INTERESTING, and if you don't care for either why join the wider net and discussions? So many discussions even just relating to tv shows or movies with eventually come to either Biology or heck general science, Psycology, Geography , History... or Religion too.)
Perhaps Lousiana eating gators was a detail that imbedded itself in Mike's mind, if he accidently came across it. Perhaps with a selective memory, there has even been an INCIDENT surrounding a reptilian like monster in Southern US America before. So if he saw a southern flag, even by chance, he'd think "Ooh, we should chuck him here!', heck even subconciously.
I really don't know. We can only really make inferrences as to what they really knew about human geography or what monsters know about humans- the latter of which is admittaedly not alot and the former can only be limited in it's general education even in our own world, unless you go on to further study a particular study or take an active interest/ are told directly.
Hard to say really in other words.
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