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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 11, 2009 15:31:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure who, in terms of naming names, would be the worse-case choice for writing M.I.2, although based on the track record of the first one, I probably wouldn't go with any of the original writers, not unless they already had something more positive in mind for Randall, should there be a sequel. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, though. I wouldn't want any of Disney's writers, either, since Chris Sanders left them due to creative differences with John Lassetter. The Disney mind-set, when it comes to animated movies, is that there has absolutely GOT to be a villain, who will be defeated/killed in as inglorious a way as possible in the end, and there has to be a hero or heroine, who is simply wonderful. I cannot think of ONE animated Disney movie that this wasn't the case, but given how worn-out and jaded that idea is, I would really hope that Pixar would steer as clear of it as possible. MY worst-case scenario would be for someone with that mind-set, plus a hatred/fear of reptilian creatures who believes that anything with scales that is not a fish is pure evil, to write the sequel. Someone who hates snakes and lizards, who believes in the "once evil, always evil" train of thought, or who just plain hates Randall, personally, would be the worst choice. Someone who wants to do things differently from the same old Disney formula, who believes in the concepts of forgiveness and second chances strongly, who is at least open-minded about characters being able to change their ways, and who does not harbor a grudge against either Randall, or against scaly creatures in general, would be a good choice, as would someone who dislikes the use of stereotypes, negative or otherwise, in movies. Ironically, John Lassetter himself seems to be one of the better choices, despite his differences with Chris Sanders, and so is Andrew Stanton. Both have written and directed Pixar films that did NOT have a villain, or a Good Guy vs. Bad Guy theme throughout, proving that it's not only do-able, but it can be very successful, too.
Incidentally, the biggest argument that Sean and I have encountered(along with the other Randall fans there) on Pixar Planet is that the people who do NOT want to see him come back and undergo a character arc feel that doing so would be "boring", "uninteresting", and result in fans turning away because it would not be believable. I've gotten that as much as, or more than, the "Randall is pure evil and everyone SHOULD hate him" or the "Randall died in that trailer so there's no way he can be in the sequel"(which of course we know now is not true) argument.
On this topic, perhaps I've posted this before, but Pixar has NEVER done a movie in which forgiveness, and righting past wrongs, is a major theme. They've done the parent-child bond thing a lot(both M.I. and Finding Nemo), they've done growing up(the T.S. movies), friendship over fame and success(Cars), group cooperation(A Bug's Life), but none about forgiveness, none about people changing, none about not judging books by their cover. M.I. SUPPOSEDLY had the theme of standing up to our fears, but the wrong message about it, totally. Most people think that Boo lost her fear of Randall when she attacked him and clobbered him with the baseball bat. She did NOT; she simply channeled that fear into a different reaction. She was not even making a conscious choice at that time, but obeying the primal "fight or flight" reaction of ANY frightened animals. She could no longer simply run away or depend on Sulley's protection, so she reacted with violence instead, just like a cornered wild animal lashing out and attacking a perceived threat, when it can no longer run away(Randall was essentially doing that very same thing himself, ironically). Just as a fear-biting dog learns that it can get its way by snapping and biting, Boo learned that she can get HER way, and accomplish what she wants, by using violence, too. I've used that analogy that a person who grabs a hoe and chops a snake in half with it, is just as afraid of snakes as the person who runs screaming at the sight of a snake. Their fears just manifest differently, but it's still FEAR nonetheless. I don't know why so few people can actually understand that.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 11, 2009 18:16:12 GMT -5
I'm already in plans to do that. Pixar won't listen. Apparently sticking to their "no outside ideas" claim while they forget their "no villains" one. *shakes head* Yes, I'm already developing simple plans to increase Ran's reputation, as well as jib Pixar into listening. *folds arms* All I've been told so far is that Pete Doctor is the director. And he took that up for the first one, and we all know what happens. And he also...well...did that same thing in Up.
I have the suspecion Pete is doing the "same old" just to pocket the money and do something original.
YOUR a fan of SULLIVAN? *gets pitchfork*.....just kidding ^_^ Not to mention we are actually fairer, at least I am 0_0, of the bunch. We TRY to explain to some people of what they DIDN'T see...sometimes it works...but other times it doesn't.
Actually...uhh...over a decade if it's coming in 2013. Can't believe I'm saying this...but Wazowski's role in the sequel would most likely dictate how his relationship with Celia is going. And I have a sneaky suspecion that at the END...the two get married.
Hm. I hardly though about more sympathizers...huh...
I haven't read all the books yet...unsure...WHY it bombed...but hopefully, as I'm a movie-goer, that the films will fix that.
True true... ------------------------------------------------- Which gives us a loophole. IF they were going to be using the comic as the basis for the sequel, they wouldn't need very many writers to assist with the film. And since the Director heavily influences things, he's not neccesarily going to be writing it *nods* Ho ho, would it be clever if one of us went into Pixar with intention of fixing the sequel? ^0^ Hm hm ^_-
Like I've said for my end, I CAN see a Cars sequel. But...NEMO? No no no no...that was about love between...father and son...that was DONE. Rather left in the air then dead.
Here here! *raises Colt pistols* And the differrance is, Ran worked hard to get up to that position, and to my knowledge he never stepped on anybody...or downgraded anyone else. Waternoose...well...
Huh...I recorded some fosters recently...gonna have to look at those ^_^
We've been nice. I'll make'em listen. We've been whispering...lets see what they do with a shout. ------------------------------------------------ They are *nods* In fact, that's the premise of one of my original stories that I hope to...someday finish 0_0
Good question! ^_^ Of course Pixar's "no outside influence" pars that a bit...BUT...what WOULD it be? Actually I...HAVE been working on that...I think I've got a GREAT opening for the M.I. 2 film...something that would shock the people who viewed the first one, and get Randall's redemption arc it's foot in the door sorta speak.
Even two of the "Bad Guys" who were basically Azula's flunkies....uhh Mae...and...uhh...well the circus girl...Mae helped Zuko and the others escape a prison, despite Zuko DUMPING HER as a girlfriend, in her words. And when Azula tried to "punish" Mae, the circus girl (using a talent of pressure points to disable limgs), stopped her.
I'm working on that...I've got the beginning, and some other bits...perhaps we should run ideas and pick some of the best pieces to work with. Ratatouille was around 2 hours...so what could we fit in all that. Of course the formula is 1 part serious, 2 parts funny.
Worst case? Oh...pfft...Wazowski accidentally opens a door and Randall, despite his balance and such, gets knocked into a trash compactor and comes out a cube 0_- ------------------------ Wasn't the John the one who presented the "commandments"? Hmm...maybe he believes in them...but doesn't see...actually SEE...the direction Pixar is going...
Don't worry. We'll be proving them wrong. I've still got tricks up my sleeve. Not really tricks but...they may work.
Here here! Yes. The THEME would be forgiveness/redemption. And it's NOT just for Randall, but for SULLIVAN too, in BOTH categories. It would follow that theme for both of them.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 11, 2009 19:26:03 GMT -5
Not being snarky, but I'd love to hear exactly what these "tricks" are, what this "shout" involves. ONE person, for certain, they won't listen to. It's going to take convincing Pixar that Randall's fan are many, and by "fans" I do NOT mean those who want him to be a villain, because they're obsessed with Disney villains and with evil, and there ARE people like that.
Trouble is, LGBB had a point in responding to my question on the Pixar Planet forum; Pixar is ONLY going to respond to gushy, geeky fan mail, the "OMG! You are so wonderful..I love EVERYTHING you do...yada, yada, yada!" They are not going to respond to anyone who questions their creative processes, who disagrees with them in way, or who just plain has concerns about something in one of their movies. THAT, to me, is really being unfair and one-sided, because it shows that they aren't interested in constructive critisism from the people who count the most-FANS. I know that they do not accept outside scripts, but that is not the same as simply paying attention to fans' concerns as to the direction we'd like to see them go with a particular character or franchise.
All I can suggest, that might at least let them know we're out here, is a massive letter-writing campaign addressed directly to Peter Docter. Thing is, letting all the Randall fans know about it. We are not the only ones; there are many on DA who aren't members here, or who no longer come here; ditto for FF.net. I have to wonder if there are any others on Pixar Planet, who just aren't speaking up for fear of ridicule from the many Randall haters there. Trouble with that place is that if one of us DID post some sort of notice, trying to gather support, it would be shot down, too. I don't know how far along the planned sequel is at this point, but we cannot wait until the animation is being finalized. By then it's too late. We have to assume the worst, in that Pixar is going to bring Randall back as a hard-core, evil villain this time, hell-bent on revenge against all three Good Guys, and that this time around, there will be no doubts as to whether he lives or dies at the end. That Japanese roller coaster is indeed a very chilling reminder of just what they might have in mind.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 11, 2009 19:40:34 GMT -5
I know. It'll take many of us. There are some things I can handle myself, others we all can do. Remember that Pixar Role-Play Pitbulllady? In essence it may not be important. But it gives a reflection to how WE would handle things in terms of a sequel. And more in that...how we would respond to the "heads" of Pixar themselves (as it is proposed in the rules that you can ^_-). This will establish our grounds for what should be done. And that's just one of my "tricks". And don't worry, your not being snarky ^_^ Curious maybe ^_^
.....Does ANYBODY at all listen to my replies? 0_- I said first off that Pixar will reply to people sending encouragement and admiration, but anything that involves changing what they made and such is not -_-
Maybe not. But we have to gather up support for Randall first. And that's one of the thing's I'm aiming to do with a few of my options. With some support, we can make a statement. Heck, and even one of the moderators I know could offer their support in halting any aggression. Pixar seems to work on one film a year with great diligance, while having some part of the crew working on the next or future ones, such as writing of course, and maybe some story boards. With any luck, in the first few years they won't do too much.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 11, 2009 21:18:37 GMT -5
I know. It'll take many of us. There are some things I can handle myself, others we all can do. Remember that Pixar Role-Play Pitbulllady? In essence it may not be important. But it gives a reflection to how WE would handle things in terms of a sequel. And more in that...how we would respond to the "heads" of Pixar themselves (as it is proposed in the rules that you can ^_-). This will establish our grounds for what should be done. And that's just one of my "tricks". And don't worry, your not being snarky ^_^ Curious maybe ^_^ .....Does ANYBODY at all listen to my replies? 0_- I said first off that Pixar will reply to people sending encouragement and admiration, but anything that involves changing what they made and such is not -_- Maybe not. But we have to gather up support for Randall first. And that's one of the thing's I'm aiming to do with a few of my options. With some support, we can make a statement. Heck, and even one of the moderators I know could offer their support in halting any aggression. Pixar seems to work on one film a year with great diligance, while having some part of the crew working on the next or future ones, such as writing of course, and maybe some story boards. With any luck, in the first few years they won't do too much. One thing you are counting on is that Pixarians actually visit the Pixar Planet forum and read what's posted there. We don't know that this is actually true, since it's never been confirmed. None, that any of us knows of, have ever posted there or joined there. There's just as much chance that some of them lurk or read posts HERE, but even if that were the case, the chances of them seeing that RPG or whatever, and I mean actually paying close attention to it, are slim to none. That's what's got me so frustrated with Pixar; they claim to be all about their fans, yet none actually participate in any of the online discussions of their work. I wish at least ONE Pixarian would take the initiative, like Craig McCracken and Lauren Faust did(yeah, I know I keep bringing them up)in actually joining several of the Foster's or Cartoon Network forums, and not merely as lurkers, but as active participants in discussions. They made it clear that they were very interested in what we, as fans, wanted to see, and their acknowledgement of our thoughts and interests were actually reflected, several times, in the scripts for the show. Jess Winfield, a Disney animator at that time, was a member of two of the Lilo and Stitch forums, and kept us informed, as much as he could, about developments with the tv series based on the movie. When the people who make the entertainment that I watch actually take the time to pay attention to me and the other fans, and to respond directly, that makes me feel that I'm appreciated, as a fan and as an individual, and therefore I'm more likely to appreciate THEM and support what they do. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 11, 2009 22:10:44 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be the actual people. Some of the people at Pixar Planet seem to have some credit in getting involved with Pixar or at the least have credit talking to them either personally or with letters. (One of our people was close if you all recall). At keast I'm putting forth effort. It's not lik I think this will solve everything at once.
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Post by mentalguru on Jun 12, 2009 8:27:55 GMT -5
I had a brief idea for an opening too earlier today- a tie back to the first movie- showing the Waternoose and Randall relationship. In my view, at first Waternoose was good to Randall... or seemed to be on the surface anyway... gave him praise you know? But gradually it got worse... little things at first.... saying he was 'disappointed' in him... until it became MUCH worse: Well watch this video- it uses Zuko in 'The edge of Twilight' Trailer. Think of Randall as Zuko (the boy with the scar) and Ozai as Waternoose (the man in it speaking to Zuko)... Ignore some of the things they added Zuko saying- or perhaps tone them down just a bit, and add some anger towards Sulley and Mike too- not crazy revenge, but justificable anger... perhaps Boo could be Aang? (The bald boy with an arrow)- IF they took the movie to a time Boo was old enough to understand... it kind of ties to my fanfic a bit too then.... Well here is the link- do you think this could be Waternoose-Randall relationship like?: www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2EI-XY9Hj0&feature=channel_page
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Post by mentalguru on Jun 12, 2009 10:26:00 GMT -5
-dodges pitchfork- Heh.... no... not the torches....-
Eh what can I say? I liked his and Boo's father-daughter relationship. Randall is an interesting person for either of them to interact with and theirs lots of options to play with.
Oh! And re: Harry Potter.
It just... was such a disappointment, even WITHOUT all the plot holes... Slytherins were never properly redeemed- Snape was sort of... but in a pretty bad way too... hard to explain... no I got it- he was technically 'redeemed' but in a very unsatisfying way. He didn't even care that a BABY was going to die when Harry looked at memories and (SPOILERS) . . . . His death was stupid. Even in the method in which he died he couldn't retain dignity. . . . . . The Wizarding World was found to be one also with MANY problems before Voldemort came into the picture- it's disturbing- yet these issues are NEVER DEALT WITH.
Basic messages in the end? (Warning for major sarcasm) Messing with muggle (ie. non-magical humans) minds is fun. Muggles are stupid and oh so 'quaint' and bless their ignorance! As long as you don't torture/kill them you are OPEN-MINDED and NOT racist. Weasley's obey the cult of Dumbledore- Dumbledore is god and he 'moves in mysterious ways', we must not question!. No, that is not creepy- it's perfectly normal! Harry is Jesus, who tortures for the crime of spitting. No forgiveness or 'compassion there! (If I was christian, I'd be even more ticked at that). Oh my how WONDERFUL of you Potter! Slavery (re. House Elves) is okay if freedom is too difficult to come by, slaves ENJOY it, no matter that they have been offered no alternative to live by or means to imagine any other life- they are BRED that way, and messing with that natural order is 'stupid' and 'pointless'!. Bullying is only bullying if those who wear a snake as their badge do it, not the lions- with them it's just harmless fun! (The double standards makes my mind implode). Recklessness is praised- whereas hardwork and knowledge, although okay are not half as good- and being 'cunning' means you are EVIL. Everyone is born eveil, and if you're a snake- you have no hope- unless of course you were 'sorted too soon'- ie. should have been a Gryffindor (lion!). The guy not noticing you? Then date other guys, treat them like dirt and he'll come to you! (Used to actually ship Harry/Ginny... but... ew.... Book 6! Ginny- I liked her in Goblet of Fire... but Half Blood Prince is just horrible).
If a Gryffindor does something it is for 'The Greater Good'. The ends justify the means, and even less than stellar actions which HAVE no point are okay if you're the hero!
Ugh... sorry for the rant and going off in a tangent. But HP was such a disappointment.
But yeah, it would be nice if we were able to throw some ideas out there... and know we'd be taken seriously...
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 12, 2009 11:30:42 GMT -5
I couldn't get to watch the video, though I tried. We're having major issues with our DSL, and none of our computers are able to download anything above 60, while it should be downloading at over 800! The tech guy came out from the phone company(they are the only source of internet out here)and checked out the box on the outside of the house, and claimed there was plenty of signal there, but it's not getting in the house! I can't watch anything on YouTube or play streaming music, which REALLY sucks.
I have no trouble at all believing that when Waternoose first approached Randall about building this machine, he came off as very nice and caring and fatherly. Perhaps Randall was already experiencing some difficulties, financial, perhaps, or Waternoose had noticed how the others at work tended to shun him, or maybe Waternoose was just sharp enough to pick up on Randall's psychological need for a guiding "father figure". No doubt he had access to Randall's life history, through his initial resume', which would have led to him discovering that this 22 or 23-year-old kid had no family, and in seeming to fulfil that fatherly role, the old CEO could have easily gained the kid's trust and dependency(and yes, I would still consider Randall to have been a kid at that point, from my "over-the-hill" perspective-I mean, he was barely "legal"). By offering Randall something that no one else apparently could, he could assure his cooperation. This is how cults recruit members, how scammers get victims, how dictators rise to power, so it's a tried-and-true method.
Waternoose's frustration with what he must have seen as Randall's ineptness is apparent in another scene, in which their conversation is almost unintelligible unless you listen to it through a stereo with hi-def headphones. In the scene right before Randall enters his secret workshop(some call it a "lair", since since a lair is a place of comfort, rest and security, I will not use that term. It was a slave pit, more or less), after he accidentally kidnaps Mike, and Sulley and Boo are following him, you can hear what appears to be some sort of intercom or two-way radio conversation between him and Waternoose. Waternoose speaks first, and his voice clearly sounds like it's coming through a small speaker, saying in a VERY impatient and annoyed voice, "What are you doing NOW?" He sounds the way a parent was speak to a child who has already been in trouble a lot during the course of a day. There is a pause, as Randall either has to reach for his radio somewhere on the cart(we can't actually see him, as the scene is focusing on Sulley and Boo at that point), or is simply not really wanting to deal with Waternoose's anger at the moment, but he does respond, saying, "I'm making up for lost time". Waternoose then says, "Good. So's the economy." This also establishes that whether or not HE believed it, Waternoose has convinced Randall that he was going to be hailed as the one individual who had pulled his nation out of an economic recession, so naturally, Randall was a willing participant. He honestly thought that he would be seen as a national hero, not only for helping out his country in tough economic times, but for being a great inventor who, in his own words, "revolutionized the Scaring industry". Waternoose had probably told him tales of grandeur, about how school kids many decades from now would be reading about Randall in their history books, as school kids here read about Thomas Edison or Eli Whitney now in our world. What young guy, who knows he's got a bit of a "PR" problem, WOULDN'T want that?
pitbulllady
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Post by mentalguru on Jun 12, 2009 15:01:12 GMT -5
True. Since you can't get the video (shame, it's pretty good!)- I guess I'll type out the monologue here for you to read. This might not be what Waternoose would actually SAY to Randall, and it might be a taste of what Waternoose really feels about the guy (perhaps a tad on the extreme side at some points... but still possible of course). Her's the monolgue. Imagine Waternoose thinking THIS. Long pauses and in a deep rumbling voice- kind of creepy:
"Ooh, you like to think you're someone special; don't you?"
...
(Voice becomes more muffled for a moment, though the word "Don't you get tired....Parasites" can be heard).
"You held onto that one thing you could do; didn't you?"
...
-whisper-: "Oh yes"
...
"You thought going into the night was the silver lining to the cloud that is your life; didn't you? The foundation for Your ARROGANT SELF IMPORTANT EGO-"
....
"And now;" -voice becomes mocking- "you're feeling jealousy and rage at my pure athen empire....Oh, I can see right through you."
The video then shows images of Zuko with Aang, apologising alot. And vowing to 'set things right'
Then the 'dark' voice starts again.
"One little slip of your knife...."
...
"And a lifetime of pain can just drain away"
Pretty chilling.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 12, 2009 15:54:24 GMT -5
That reminds me so much of that hate-filled comment that Waternoose made to Randall as Randall was strapping Boo into the Scream Extractor:
"I KNEW I shouldn't have trusted YOU with this! Because of YOU I had to banish my best Scarer!" followed by, "James P. Sullivan was TWICE the Scarer YOU'LL EVER BE!"
And this was just the tip of the iceberg, folks. I'm sure this isn't the only time that Randall had been forced to endure what amounted to-excuse the explicit imagery here-a verbal sodomizing from his boss. Just that fact that he was willing to put up with THAT, to allow anyone to talk to him like that, is proof of the hold that Henry J. Waternoose had on him, and that by this point, this was NOT a choice on Randall's part to remain under that control. He did NOT-and never had-have that option of simply saying, "no thanks" to his boss when told to design and build that machine, and to take human children from their world to test in it. All he can do is growl below his breath like a scared, cornered beaten dog. There was anger there in his eyes, yes, but there was also HURT, and even worse, FEAR. That one scene, right there, should have convinced anyone watching it that Randall was NOT operating under his own free will by this point, if he ever had been. NO one, who still has a choice, is going to tolerate that sort of abuse.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 12, 2009 18:54:22 GMT -5
================== Was unsure myself to include Waternoose or not, one considering his voice actor is sadly deceased, and unsure if he should be the main disrupter this time around....
Edge of Twilight? 0_0 Don't think I've heard of that episode 0_0 ----------------------------------- I'm not going to spoil too much for myself ^0^ Though I will say that humans are easy to manipulate 0_- ---------------------------------- Your...having net problems as well PBL? Mine was recently due to the storms but...unsure...
Though given the time between Randall's loss of his Top Scarer position and such, unsure how much time Waternoose had to show this "fatherly side". Then again, he may had slightly...another reason why he probably got annoyed at how Waternoose shifted that on to Sullivan.
Of course he's got himself more of a PR problem 0_o --------------------------- *waves hand* I showed that hurt ^_^ *folds arms* I always had a sneaking suspecion that a part of Randall KNEW Waternoose would betray him, and set forth some sort of additional plan to, once the Scream Extractor is accepted for public view, that he'd have something to prove Waternoose of of what dirty work he was doing under the surface of M.I.
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tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Jun 13, 2009 14:46:09 GMT -5
Isn't there a game with Randall working post-movie at MI that is supposed to be "canon"?
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 13, 2009 15:04:20 GMT -5
Isn't there a game with Randall working post-movie at MI that is supposed to be "canon"? Yes, there IS, and it actually was one of the "bigger" games, one of the most-popular ones. It was "Scream Arena", not accurately named, since it takes place AFTER the factory has converted to Laugh energy. Randall IS working at the factory, and there are entire audiences of human children brought in for the purpose of making them laugh. It's essentially a bizarre game of dodge-ball, with different types of balls that cause a different reaction when they hit a player, like a ball that causes the player to disco dance, another than covers a player with slime, etc. Either the makers of the game "forgot" that Randall was supposed to have been thrown into the Human World, or was "supposed" to be "bad", or they decided that he'd changed enough for the better and could come back to the Monster World, and to the factory, and become a productive Comic. Now, apparently, the makers of BOOM comics don't know of this game, or don't CARE, and it waits to be seen if Pixar acknowledges it, or brushes it off as something DISNEY did back when they owned the rights to those characters. DISNEY, though, has already stated that officially-licensed games based on movies that bear their name, in any capacity, ARE considered canon. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 13, 2009 19:11:36 GMT -5
*nods* Yes. OH! And everybody...I procured THIS little item from my hunting a few days ago....
As we can see, Randall is healthy, recovered from whatever physical troubles that are apparent, and in effect, HAPPY. *nods* Though I see him now as that kid self of him just enjoying himself and actually having a good time. And yes, Canon of course, which is the blockpost we can use. Here's my theory...at least Pixar-wise as it stands for now. Ran, in conjunction with that pic of everyone walking on the floor and Randall is there to the site, with a hat under one arm, and the Scream Arena game, DOES come back, gets himself the job as main mechanic for the factory, and on the side participates in the "Scream Arena" function to satisfy his competitive side (and in actuallity, I won the game JUST using Randall. He's honestly the best in the game *nods). In fact that does look good for him. He can get the appreciation and respect for keeping M.I. up and running. Of course he might look to better things in the future, but for now it holds.
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