tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Sept 23, 2006 13:32:55 GMT -5
Could Mike and Sully have claimed self defense to get out of endangering Randall? He WAS trying to kill them, after all.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Sept 23, 2006 17:33:19 GMT -5
Well actually at this point they could try. They DID try to kill Randall to at the end. And yes, that has become conclusive. Not to mention they banished someone without any governmental approval.
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Post by pitbulllady on Sept 23, 2006 20:51:59 GMT -5
The answer, as per a lawyer I actually discussed this topic with once, is a resounding NO!
In order for the self-defense claim to be valid, Randall would have actually had to be STILL trying to harm Mike and Sulley, and they had to be able to prove that there was no other way to stop him. They had to have been in immediate danger of their lives, with no other recourse at all. In actuallity, he wasn't still trying to harm them-he had stopped fighting, had given up, basically-and Sulley had him under complete control, physically, by that time. The self-defense claim is NOT acceptable, in any court of law, if someone kills/injures someone else based on what that person had done previously, or based on what they MIGHT do in the future, so the popular argument that Sulley was vindicated in "banishing" Randall because Randall MIGHT later get out of jail and try to hurt him simply would not hold up in court, if it came down to that, nor would the argument that Sulley was justified in "banishing" Randall because Randall had previously tried to kill HIM. THAT boils down to REVENGE, plain and simple, and therefore means that Mike and Sulley broke the law themselves in deciding the fate of another monster. As such, they are just as guilty as Randall, MORE so if he did indeed get killed in the trailer, since that would not constitute mere Attempted Murder, but actual First-Degree, or Premeditated, Murder, if it could be established that Mike and Sulley KNEW that Randall would likely be killed if they threw him inside that trailer. That proves "Intent"-that they INTENDED for him to be killed as a direct result of their actions, and even though they did not weild the shovel, it was their actions that led directly to the death of another monster. Part of Mike's job was to know where the doors led, so he most likely picked that one particular door out, rather than it being a random decision on his part, and he and Sulley had to have taken some time to discuss and plan what to do with Randall, now that he was helpless and under Sulley's control, which is where the "Premeditated" part comes in. I know there here in the Human World, REVENGE is the most common motive for murder; someone kills someone else in retribution for what the deceased did, or tried to do, to them previously, and the courts treat revenge killings just like any other. In South Carolina, Mike and Sulley would be facing life in prison, with no chance of parole, at the very LEAST, if they were ever brought to trial and convicted, assuming that the court had pretty hard evidence that Randall did not survive. It's not inconceivable that Sulley, at least, would eventually Walk the Green Mile, since our state does impose capital punishment on many convicted of First-Degree Murder. Randall, at the worst, would be convicted of Attempted Murder and Assault and Battery of a High and Aggravated Nature, but I'd be willing to bet that any psychiatrist worthy of his degree could prove that Randall acted while under extreme mental/emotional duress and was really not capable of fully grasping what he was doing, especially in light of having been ORDERED to kill someone, by a third party(Waternoose), whom he had legitimate reason to fear.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Sept 23, 2006 21:01:14 GMT -5
Hot darn Pitbulllady ^_^ Sing it sister ^_^
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tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Sept 24, 2006 5:59:38 GMT -5
I wonder how Eyeball and Furrug beat the rap (If MI2 will even cover this). Maybe their heroic reputation will influence any jury, if they even go on trial?
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Post by lizardgirl on Sept 24, 2006 9:14:42 GMT -5
That's the thing- they probably wouldn't go on trial. Why would anyone care about the disappearence of a lizard monster? Randall wasn't the most popular of Mons, and since Mike and Sulley, Sulley especially, had such a big part in discovering laugh energy, everyone would be more concerned about that, and would rather celebrate Sulley's actions as ridding the Monster World of the energy crisis.
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tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Sept 24, 2006 10:02:26 GMT -5
On the other hand, why care about the disappearance of ANY monster? All the monsters are minorities, if not unique, and just because someone is unpopular does not make murder of them permissable. If anything, it would provide a motive for M&S, making them more likely to be suspected. If any monster could be killed just because someone did not like someone else, even if the someone was popular, Monster World would make a TV western look like the land of lotus eaters.
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Post by pitbulllady on Sept 24, 2006 10:19:08 GMT -5
I wonder how Eyeball and Furrug beat the rap (If MI2 will even cover this). Maybe their heroic reputation will influence any jury, if they even go on trial? They never GOT the rap in the first place, since they never got caught or taken into custody. The CDA apparently helped cover up Mike and Sulley's own crime, and since Randall had no family or anyone close enough to him to push for an investigation into his disappearance, the matter was never pursued. Everyone was just glad to finally get rid of the one reptilian monster, whom they probably never wanted there in the first place. The bad thing is, especially where children who watch the movie are concerned, is that we are supposed to believe that Mike and Sulley are GOOD. that them taking revenge on someone else was justified, and acceptable behavior. We are SUPPOSED to believe that they had no other choice in what they did with Randall, when in fact they DID. pitbulllady
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tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Sept 24, 2006 10:29:44 GMT -5
Would this be realistic for Our World (I am rather innocent :-) )? If someone who was a loner and unpopular were to vanish, would this just be ignored? Or is it the CDA trying to keep the whole thing secret (and what is their motive for that, BTW? The fact that Watermoose tried his shenanigans is surely front page news, since HE was taken into custody. Is it to keep secret that children are safe, thus maintaining the CDA's reason for existance? But Mike and Sully know the secret, if the CDA is like the KGB or something, wouldn't they just terminate M&S with extreme prejudice and cover THAT up?)
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Post by pitbulllady on Sept 24, 2006 10:45:55 GMT -5
Would this be realistic for Our World (I am rather innocent :-) )? If someone who was a loner and unpopular were to vanish, would this just be ignored? Or is it the CDA trying to keep the whole thing secret (and what is their motive for that, BTW? The fact that Watermoose tried his shenanigans is surely front page news, since HE was taken into custody. Is it to keep secret that children are safe, thus maintaining the CDA's reason for existance? But Mike and Sully know the secret, if the CDA is like the KGB or something, wouldn't they just terminate M&S with extreme prejudice and cover THAT up?) If you recall, even after Sulley was made CEO of M.I., the CDA were VERY much a presence in the factory, and at Mike's "company play". My guess is that they know about what happened to Randall, but are covering it up becaues Mike and Sulley were instrumental in helping them to catch Waternoose, who was the really big fish that they were after. HOWEVER, they are keeping close tabs on things, to make sure that neither Mike nor Sulley slip up and reveal that human children are not dangerous, something which would indeed have a negative impact on the agency's continued existance. I can't think of any other valid reason for them to be at the play, in full uniform, can you? As for Randall's disappearance, yes, it would be common for a loner, who has no family or close friends, to disappear in our world and no one would care, so I would assume it would be the same in the Monster World. That probably was one of the reasons, among others, why Waternoose picked Randall in the first place to build the Scream Extractor-he intended to get rid of Randall all along, once the machine was finished and tested, and did not want his family and a bunch of lawyers and private investigators snooping all over the place, trying to find out what happened to their boy! He also knew that it was unlikely that Randall would snitch about the machine, since he did not have anyone close enough to confide in. Randall was EXPENDABLE, in other words. The only ones who'd notice his disappearance and care at all would have been his creditors, and they are limited to simply trying to contact him at home, and either repossessing his belongings he still owed money on, or ruining his credit rating, or trying to sue for fraud, but they cannot go after him at work, so they would only assume that he was simply refusing to pay up. They would not actually know that he'd been thrown into another parallel universe, since I'm sure they deal with individuals who simply refuse to pay their debts all the time. pitbulllady
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tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Sept 24, 2006 10:57:55 GMT -5
I just wonder if Disney thought this all out, and KNEW that Randall was illegally thrown though the door by M&S and the CDA is keeping close tabs on them.
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Post by pitbulllady on Sept 24, 2006 11:06:14 GMT -5
I just wonder if Disney thought this all out, and KNEW that Randall was illegally thrown though the door by M&S and the CDA is keeping close tabs on them. I doubt it, and they probably didn't figure anyone else would be astute enough to catch it, either, but then again, I doubt that they EVER counted on anyone actually liking Randall Boggs, or being able to sympathize with him. He's scaly and reptilian, after all, and most humans loathe and despise creatures like that. pitbulllady
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tmazanec1
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Posts: 463
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Post by tmazanec1 on Sept 24, 2006 11:10:08 GMT -5
Judging from Fanfiction.net, Randall is actually the most popular character in the movie. I wonder if anyone there knows this (I know writers are forbidden to read fanfic). Maybe this will influence their decision of bringing him back or not.
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Post by lizardgirl on Sept 24, 2006 11:43:50 GMT -5
It's hard to tell whether they know or not, but somehow, it feels as though they don't really care. Pixar, on the other hand, do seem to listen to their fans, but it's still pretty hard to get the information across.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Sept 24, 2006 14:19:45 GMT -5
Pfft. None of you have considered the fact that the C.D.A. are preventing Sullivan and Wazowski from speaking about the event entirely. And even when Randall would come back in they would handle him too.
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