Randall Boggs - through the 'Monsters 3' villains' eyes?

[randallsnape7]

OH, NO!!! It's RANDALL BOGGS, the PARTY-CRASHER!!! NO MORE EVIL FUN FOR US, FOLKS! THE JIG IS UP!!!!! LOL

Quite personally, I think another interesting thing worth looking at is what the human villains themselves will think initially once they realize that this unknown stranger... this strange purple monster, shows up all of a sudden to crash their little party, foil their schemes, and is onto them..... JUST when they thought they'd won. How do you think the humans would react?

I think it goes without saying that a group of humans aren't going to give a hoot what personal conflicts Randall had had with his fellow scarers... you know, that 'big blue furry guy', and that 'green ball guy'? As far as they are concerned, the monsters are ALL on the same side. END OF STORY. These humans could actually think that Sulley, being the company's CEO (or former CEO, depending on how much Monsters, Inc. has changed) hatched a secret pact with Mike to unleash their 'terrifying buddy' at the last moment if things got too bad, like a hidden Ace card up a player's sleeve, in a sort of: "Oho! Thought you could outsmart us?" type attitude.

Not to discount the necessary reconciliation and heart-to-heart talks Randall is going to have to have with Mike and Sulley, but I think the human invaders would, to an extent, forcibly and unknowingly unify Mike, Sulley, and Randall to a certain extent just by their attitude. Similar to the way in 'Under Wraps', Mr. Kubat was enraged at the unexpected arrival of Gilbert, and he snidely declares "How very noble! Now, you can ALL go down together!", I think Randall's appearance is gonna have to tick the humans off BIG-TIME. Please share your thoughts on how the humans might respond to Randall's appearance - not from Mike or Sulley's perspective, but from the humans.

How do you think the humans would retaliate? Would Randall be able to properly scare some of them away? I think at least one human, like the ringleader of the group, should linger behind to the bitter end and make some sort of attempt to kill Randall - in a manner different from that family in the trailer, I might add... even though we all know that ultimately, he will have to fail. What sort of situations or story configurations involving the humans near the climax do you think this will entail? This whole thread can allow users to discuss this exciting topic!

[pitbulllady]

Apr 2, 2014 23:44:51 GMT -5 randallsnape7 said:

OH, NO!!! It's RANDALL BOGGS, the PARTY-CRASHER!!! NO MORE EVIL FUN FOR US, FOLKS! THE JIG IS UP!!!!! LOL

Quite personally, I think another interesting thing worth looking at is what the human villains themselves will think initially once they realize that this unknown stranger... this strange purple monster, shows up all of a sudden to crash their little party, foil their schemes, and is onto them..... JUST when they thought they'd won. How do you think the humans would react?

I think it goes without saying that a group of humans aren't going to give a hoot what personal conflicts Randall had had with his fellow scarers... you know, that 'big blue furry guy', and that 'green ball guy'? As far as they are concerned, the monsters are ALL on the same side. END OF STORY. These humans could actually think that Sulley, being the company's CEO (or former CEO, depending on how much Monsters, Inc. has changed) hatched a secret pact with Mike to unleash their 'terrifying buddy' at the last moment if things got too bad, like a hidden Ace card up a player's sleeve, in a sort of: "Oho! Thought you could outsmart us?" type attitude.

Not to discount the necessary reconciliation and heart-to-heart talks Randall is going to have to have with Mike and Sulley, but I think the human invaders would, to an extent, forcibly and unknowingly unify Mike, Sulley, and Randall to a certain extent just by their attitude. Similar to the way in 'Under Wraps', Mr. Kubat was enraged at the unexpected arrival of Gilbert, and he snidely declares "How very noble! Now, you can ALL go down together!", I think Randall's appearance is gonna have to tick the humans off BIG-TIME. Please share your thoughts on how the humans might respond to Randall's appearance - not from Mike or Sulley's perspective, but from the humans.

How do you think the humans would retaliate? Would Randall be able to properly scare some of them away? I think at least one human, like the ringleader of the group, should linger behind to the bitter end and make some sort of attempt to kill Randall - in a manner different from that family in the trailer, I might add... even though we all know that ultimately, he will have to fail. What sort of situations or story configurations involving the humans near the climax do you think this will entail? This whole thread can allow users to discuss this exciting topic!

It is standard practice for any invading force, seeking to subjugate another group or civilization, to "de-humanize" them as much as possible, to relegate them to a status of less than human, less than PEOPLE, of mere lower animals. The monsters, in fact, had been doing this exact same thing for generations, spreading the word that HUMAN children were toxic, vile animals, and no small part of that was intended to justify terrifying those children night after night. Had the monster public known the truth, the court of public opinion would have been far less favorable for continuing to traumatize those children and exploit their fear. We can look to examples throughout own history, at how various generals, dictators, and conquerors have portrayed those that they sought to conquer; look at how Adolf Hitler portrayed the Jews and other minorities, at how Native Americans were long portrayed by our government and media, at how Africans were shown, and even now, how some cultures portray women. Naturally these humans, finding themselves in the Monster World, would be confronted by something that most have never even imagined-a population of sapient beings who are not human, and this would be a first. They would be very reluctant to admit to anyone that these were a people, not just talking animals, even surrounded by cars, building, technology, etc., that mirrors our own, so the driving force behind their desire to take over and exploit this world would be that core belief that the monsters are not human, therefore they do not deserve all this, they deserve/NEED to be controlled and subjugated.

Here's the catch, though. Like I said before, these humans have got to be a real threat. They HAVE to have weapons and be willing to use them on monsters, otherwise the audience will know that the threat is not real and the monsters' reactions to these humans will seem silly. We have seen that the monsters themselves are FAR from defenseless; the CDA has technology that can encapsulate and destroy any object, even entire buildings, in mere seconds, and not just blow them up, either, but reduce even the very molecules of that object to no more than a dark smudge of residue! We ourselves don't have anything comparable to that! The monster civilization parallels our own in every way, the good, the bad and ugly. We can gather just from watching MU, for instance, that hunting is legal, therefore guns are legal, because Sulley would not have gotten by with impersonating a bear skin rug in that Scare Games challenge at the college president's home if it wasn't commonplace for monsters to hunt wild game and make such items from the hides of their trophies. The ROR house has light fixtures made from deer antlers and you can guarantee that Johnny Worthington had spend more hours in a deer stand by that point than most people will spend working, lol. To be sure the monsters have armies, air forces, etc. It will take a very large invading force of humans, a "Shock and Awe" type of invasion, to overcome the monsters' own defenses, OR a very subtle, sneaky, behind-the-scenes partnering with certain monsters in positions of power, an "inside job". That latter is probably more realistic, and more insidious, than an outright invasion by force.

And here's the other catch: these humans are not going to be afraid of monsters. Scaring them away is not going to work, because then they'll just kill you. The monsters have three options here; they can either route the humans by superior force, meaning all-out war, they can outsmart them and trick them back into the Human World(remember "door jamming" is a thing) then find a way to permanently seal off their entries, OR they can use a third option, which I'll get to momentarily. The second option carries a huge risk for the monsters, too, in that by sealing off that wormhole portal through which those humans got there in the first place, the monsters risk also sealing off ALL access to the Human World, on which they still depend on for energy. Plus, now the humans know of the existence of the Monster World, and these aren't little kids whom no one will believe, either. That is still going to spell trouble, as will the first option, because no matter what, now the humans KNOW that the Monster World exists, and know how that all the stories, etc., of monsters in closets were real, not just kids having nightmares or overactive imagination. Humans will stop at nothing, now, to get back into that other world and exploit its resources in any way possible. One defeat is simply going to be a temporary setback. These are all valid reasons why having humans as the antagonists here can be problematic, because the ONLY way for them not to go back and tell everyone what they've seen, including taking back objects from the Monster World with them, and not ramping up efforts to return, is for all the humans to be destroyed, and I do NOT think that's going to go over too well at all!

The third option is the one most difficult to pull off, but one which will hopefully leave a more profound effect on the audience, and that is for the monsters, for Randall in particular, to do something that completely changes the way that the humans, or their leaders, at least, see the monsters, to make them realize that these are PEOPLE, to appeal to their conscience to the point where the humans will understand that what they are doing is morally wrong in every sense of the word. Rather than scare these humans, the monsters need to earn their respect to the extent that they will honor the monsters' right to exist as a separate civilization and leave them alone. If the humans are military, especially, under the command of a powerful and respected leader, that's doable. This would be a good case for disarming an enemy by feeding him when he's hungry, giving him water when he's thirsty, and heaping a whole lot of "burning coals" on his head in the process, and it would be not only fitting on that large scale, with the invaders, but on a much smaller scale, between Randall, Mike and Sulley, as well.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

It is for that very reason (about humans with military might spreading the word about the existence of the Monster World to other humans in power) why I've always thought that teens or college-age young adults would be more suitable for entering the monster world, and ultimately being thrown out by Randall)... it eliminates the scenario of human greed within a political or militaristic organization, and the large-scale, apocalyptic implications of the word spreading in the Human World that monsters do in fact exist. With large-scale human military organizations involved, there would ALWAYS be the possibility of a retaliation - a retaliation involving larger, more powerful political organizations from any country in the world, who would to try to find a way back into the Monster World to seize control again. Also, I still think Randall's redemption does not call for "World War III" to erupt in the Monster World.

I personally think you've let the image of paintball guns cause you to underestimate all that a group of teens or young adults COULD do... given that just the right individuals with the right intellect. They wouldn't just barge in and act foolish.... they would use stealth at all times, as if playing a chess game. Speaking of Chess, just look at David Strathairn's 'Monk' character, Patrick Closter, from "Mr. Monk and the Genius" (Episode 2, Season 7). He didn't possess one ounce of physical prowess... yet he was terrifying and intimidating, because he played with other people's minds, using his I.Q. and his chess logic to stay one step ahead of Adrian Monk most of the time. To me, those types of villains are far more sadistic. "Ah, yes... I've seen that look a hundred times. It's the look that all of my opponents get when they know they have been BEATEN." Patrick boasts at one point.


But like I said, I never saw these teens as just stupid, harmless airheads. They would learn to come into 'Monsters, Inc.' whenever all the lights are turned off and everybody heads home from work. Taking over would be a step-by-step process: First, they would have to know how to disarm the factory's alarm and security system, they would have to know how to pick locks so they can break into Sulley and Roz's office and rummage through all that paperwork and countless files. ALL one would have to do to deplete the Monster World's power supply would be to gather up those canisters and let out the scream or laugh, like when Waternoose said in the Simulation Room "You're going in there, because we need THIS!", then, to make sure that no monster can use them again, the teens could dump all those canisters in a lake or river.

Now... if there were any firearms IN the Monster World, I could easily imagine a group of teens stealing whatever they would so they would know that they could then kill the monsters next time they had a chance. Logically speaking, the sharpest thing an armed group of teens would do FIRST, is ambush and massacre the homebase of the CDA right off the bat, which would involve wiping out every last worker... could even involve an explosion. If they do that, then no militaristic organization in the Monster World would be able to stop them. With the CDA out of the way, the second step would be to sabotage those yellow canisters to eliminate the very things used to give the Monsters power. Once a blackout has been successfully caused in Monstropolis, the monsters would MOST DEFINITELY have a lot on their plate to deal with. Just the enormous visual darkness that would be displayed onscreen in the film would be enough for young children to know that this is serious trouble.

Furthermore, one important aspect that you never addressed in your answer is Boo. It recently came to me that the best way for Randall to save Boo, and thus redeem himself in Sulley's eyes, would be for the meanest of the humans to actually take Boo as a hostage, and use torture threats to break Sulley's will. This avenue would totally 1-up ANY attempt Randall had made (or thought he had made) to hurt Boo. This scenario was shown in 'Spider-Man 1', when Norman Osborne (a.k.a. The Green Goblin) put Peter Parker in a position of having to choose between saving a hanging bus full of helpless passengers, or the woman he loves, Mary Jane Watson. As Norman says in the film: "Let die the woman you love.... or.... suffer the little children. Make your choice, Spider-Man, and see... how a hero is rewarded!". ALL a human would have to do for Randall to be in the hotseat would be for him to have Sulley in a cage, and force him to watch Boo being gradually tortured. The villain's ultimatum could be "Give up the factory, or give up the child!", and then make Boo scream and cry. In this situation, Randall would undoubtedly find himself in that same position Anakin Skywalker found himself in 'Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi'... he either has to watch his son die from Palpatine's force lightning, or hurl Palpatine down the reactor shaft and bring balance to the Force.

Again, if you still don't agree with the young teen/adult idea, that's fine... but the main point I was making is that organized adults in a political or militaristic position would DEFINITELY pose as a potential unending threat. If it's just a group of dangerous, arrogant teens being hurled back into the human world, the chances of any human over THERE believing them would be slim enough, the monsters wouldn't have to worry about a retaliation.

[pitbulllady]

But to come across as a genuine threat, these humans, whatever age they happen to be, have GOT to have the means to really cause harm. The monsters have weapons themselves. Big weapons. Weapons that can instantaneously vaporize an entire building. Don't you think they'd use them to defend themselves, their world, against invading humans? They have guns, because at least some of them hunt. Ted Nugent doesn't have as many deer heads and antlers around HIS house as Johnny has up in in the ROR house, and Johnny was just a college kid at that point. I don't think he got those trophies by throwing rocks at 'em.
Yes, invading humans of any age that are old enough to tell other humans what they've seen and experienced will open the way for that "unending invasion" scenario, and teens are just as likely to tell as adults. If they really are smart, clever kids, they'll also be believable. Adults will trust what they've said. The question is, WHY would a bunch of teenagers WANT to do this in the first place? What would be their motive? How would they even know how to go about doing this, finding the CDA headquarters, taking it out with fake guns(while the CDA has devices that render all of them into a pile of ashes in an instant), why would they want to take over the factory? What do they have to gain from all that? It's one thing if you have some military person, who honestly believes in "manifest destiny" and that the monsters present a threat to all of humananity and therefore must be either controlled or eliminated, or someone who is pursuing the scientific angle, wanting to take back specimens for examination. A corporate invasion makes sense, someone hoping to cash in and make money off of this new world and exploit its resources, but I can't think of a reason why a bunch of teenagers would want to take that chance.
To deal with the "perpetual invasion", that's why I mentioned that the best way to permanently nullify an enemy is to win them over to YOUR side. Rather than have a trite formula in which the Good Guys fight with the Bad Guys and ultimately beat them, which was basically the premise of "Monsters, Inc.", why not have the "Bad Guys" experience a change of heart, like what was originally planned for Randall in MI, due to something that the Good Guys do, and decide to leave and not speak of this, echoing what Roz said in MI? IF the threat HAS to be humans, not other monsters, it is going to be difficult to pull off just having Randall or anyone else send the humans back to the Human World and that's the end of the problem. And the thing with the teens is that is is so close to the "BOOM!" studios "Laugh Factory Comics" that it's really hard for me to get that out of my head, sorry. Instead of one teen-Sid Phillips-it's a whole bunch of them, but at least Sid did have a motive, even if it was stupid(ridding the Human World of toys). The matter of how Sid knew his way around Monstropolis, knew his way around the MI factory, knew Waternoose and Randall, knew all of that stuff, was never resolved and it was part of what made the comics so ridiculous, but if it's a group of teens there's going to be those exact same issues. That's why I'd lean more and more towards the antagonists either being all monsters, or an alliance of monsters and humans who know how to negotiate such things, who have been in communication with some shadowy monster group and have obtained the "intel" they need to pull something off, and a genuine motive for doing so. Taking over the power industry would put them in control of the monster's power grid, a supporting pillar of their infrastructure and economy, and that's something that a bunch of kids wouldn't comprehend or even really care about, with very few exceptions. Plus, if the audience knows that the paint guns are fake, the monsters' fear of those "weapons" will seem silly because the audience will know that there's really no threat, and therefore anything Randall does will be meaningless to the audience because THEY will know that he didn't really risk anything to do that. Whatever/whoever it is that Randall has to stop, they'd BETTER be a real danger to him and to all the other monsters, so that the audience knows he is risking his own life to save his world, and that especially goes for those people who still think that Randall's only motives are self-glorification. It's going to be like how everyone thought the monsters' reactions to Boo was so funny, how they were terrified of her but the audience KNEW that she wasn't dangerous at all, and that was the reason why Peter Docter dropped the idea of having a human child be the main antagonist in MI-he knew he would not be able to convince the audience that it was a real threat and therefore whatever the three intrepid monsters(Mike, Randall and Sulley) did to stop this invader would just be slapstick silly.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Well... the least I can say is you've sure given me a lot to think about. I'll definitely credit you to having the whole logic thought through. No... I actually have to admit that I didn't know that one of Pete Doctor's original intentions was having a human child be the antagonist, and later realized it wouldn't work. Either way, that iconic imagery of Randall, Mike, and Sulley as that power trio needs to FINALLY see the light of day in the climax of 'Monsters 3'.

Maybe it's just me, but I always get a twisting feeling in my stomach whenever I see that midway bedtime catalyst in 'Monsters, Inc.', you know, when Sulley puts Boo to sleep and 'Boo's Theme' plays for the first time. In the back of my head I'm always like, "Darn... here begins the spiral of events that lead to Randall's illegal banishment. When 'Monsters 3' is released, will I get to hear some sweet, tender music for Randall? Uh... yeah. I'm in the minority there!"

The problem with having a joint-effort between a group of monsters and a group of humans is that Pixar would then have the obligation to explain how THOSE monsters and humans met and established their own peace in the first place. Thinking along those lines, it sounds like you must have been thinking of some official monster secret service, like Monstropolis' version of the CIA or something. If THIS were to be the case, then indeed the government and courts of Monstropolis (which indeed, we have never seen before) could be shown in its full, dark glory, as a place riddled with corruption, possessing an evil that a simple country boy like Randall Boggs wouldn't really know, understand, or side with on any given day... which is further evidence of Randall's goodness. While it's safe to say that he was naïve enough to be used by Waternoose, at the same time, I don't think political power and corrupt politics is anything Randall has ever, or will ever, deliberately pursue in his own life... like we've said, Randall is by nature, a submissive individual.

In order to establish a believable, fictional organization, the obvious questions would have to be answered: How many members in the organization or board would there be? Who would be the leader or chairman of the oraginization and political movement? (This is arguably where a seasoned actor like Thomas Haden Church, Howie Mandel, Steve Valentine, or Craig T. Nelson could step in.) One thing's for sure, whoever these guys turn out to be, all of them - especially the leader - are the ones Randall gets to banish! Feel free to speculate.

[pitbulllady]

On the whole "banishing" of human antagonists: That still does not resolve the inevitable fact that those humans are going to go and tell everyone what they have seen and experienced, confirming the already-suspected existence of a parallel universe, accessible via some form of wormhole technology. If it's ONE person, someone whose credibility is already questionable, yeah, there will be a problem getting others to believe him/her. BUT, if it's a group of humans, then their story is more likely to be believed. If they got into the Monster World once, they know now that they can do it again, and will not cease trying. It will just be a matter of time before the humans return. All that Randall or any other monster will have accomplished is to put off the inevitable for a little while. UNLESS the entire mind-set of said humans is changed, for the better, so that they will realize that opening up the Monster World to human exploitation would be a terrible thing from an ethical/moral standpoint, they'll be back.

As for how that alliance of corrupt monsters and humans would start, you have individuals on both sides of the portal who are only interested in power and money, and they'll sell out whoever they have to in order to get it. You already have thousands of monsters going into the Human World each day, and they apparently can open up a doorway into any part of the Human World that they choose, so it's not limited to just children's closets. They also have spies which go into the Human World to try and keep tabs on us, so eventually some monster is going to notice the adult humans and how they conduct business and realize that with the right deal, there's a profit to be made, "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". But still, I'm more in favor of having the antagonists be other monsters, rather than humans, and my first paragraph sums up the reason why. We also have enough movies already that feature the theme, "humanity is an evil scourge". This was the prevailing theme of Avatar, for instance, and many others. That's also why I don't really care for the idea that the humans can only be defeated by temporarily throwing them back into their own world, because now they're more determined than ever to get back at the monsters, but rather of getting those humans to question their own values and motives and change for the better, so that the audience is not left with that senses of "humans are bad" but that there are still good humans out there, who will decide in the long run to do what is right, rather than what is profitable.

What the audience still MUST see is Randall defeating the evil that's within HIM, that's within us all. It will not matter if he goes all action hero on some invading force, because in the minds of most audience members that still is not going to make up for him wanting to use a human toddler as a Guinea pig in what the audience perceives as a torture device, nor will it make up for him trying to kill Sulley and Mike. Randall has GOT to work with his former enemies to do something good, and he has to exhibit selflessness in doing so, in helping them, otherwise most audience members will still think he's got an ulterior motive and expect him to turn on Mike and Sulley once they've gotten through the rough patches in whatever conflict they're all up against. WE are not the ones that the film has to convince; that would be preaching to the proverbial choir. The ones who need convincing are the people who still hate Randall or are sitting on the fence when it comes to deciding if he's good or evil. You don't even need an antagonist in the form of a person, monster or human, for that to happen. You can also have nature as an antagonist. Monstropolis is in the Midwest, which means severe storms and tornadoes, and we have seen how such disasters can bring humans together in a community, so why not monsters? I'm just kinda burned out on the whole "gotta have a villain" formula of movie-making, because I've seen so many films that followed that formula. THIS formula is why Randall wound up like he did in the first place, because someone insisted that MI have a villain. It's why I have not been to see Frozen, because there is the inevitable Disney Villain in that, too. You can have a very intense conflict and resolution without having anyone who consciously opposing the protagonists, let alone someone who is genuinely evil, a true villain.

On the topic of human children as the antagonists of MI, MI went through several script changes before being filmed. Originally, it was about a 30-year-old man, who had a boring, mundane job, whose mother mailed him a box containing some of his old belongings from childhood that she'd found in the attic while moving. Three of the items in the box were stuffed toy monsters that the man had played with as a child, who were like his "imaginary friends"(think "Calvin and Hobbes"). The monsters come to life, though only the man can see them, and they help him get over some of his fears and hang-ups and realize that he can change his boring life and start to really live, as he did when he was a child. That idea was scrapped and the whole notion of a parallel universe populated by sapient monsters who lived boring nine-to-five lives replaced it, so a factory or workplace became the main setting. Someone decided to run with the whole tradition of monsters showing up in closets and under kids' beds, terrifying children, and the concept of monsters actually USING children's screams for energy came out of that, but with the side-plot of monsters actually being terrified of human children. Throughout several early scripts, Sulley's character was a menial worker, usually a janitor, who was friends with Mike's and Randall's characters(Randall was a Scarer and Mike was HIS assistant), and they all had different names at different points, even though their looks were recognizable. In two of the scripts, a child gets into the factory. In the first, the child was like, eight years old, and described as "the sort of kid who pulls wings off of flies and ties fire crackers to a cat's tail", a nasty little brat, in other words, who sees monsters just as bigger animals to torment. In another version, the child was a younger African-American boy, not mean, but still feared by the monsters. Basically Mike and Randall have to help Sulley overcome HIS fear of human children and help them defeat this threat, but the filmmakers realized that having these monsters defeat a little kid would not work and would not appeal to audiences. It was decided that the CHILD, then, would need to be a helpless victim, and the monsters would have to protect the child...and from there, they needed a threat, someone who was trying to harm the child. Originally that role was to have been the CDA, but then Eisner stepped in and decided that the movie had to have a "Disney Villain", and that role unfortunately was assigned to Randall.
Randall's character was originally named "Ned", and started out as a bit of a grouch and a perfectionist, based largely on Jackie Gleason's iconic tv role of "Ralph Cramden", in the popular series, "The Honeymooners", full of empty threats that hid a heart of gold, and no one every took him seriously. That fact was really brought home to me earlier this week, when I was watching a cable news commentary show that relies on comedy, and they included a clip from "The Honeymooners" in which Cramden and his sidekick, the soft-spoken, nervous "Ed Norton"(whom I now know to have been the inspiration for Fungus), were trying to move a heavy wooden crate, and Norton was standing around coming up with ideas of how to move it, while Cramden just starts to pick it up and he actually yells, "while we're still YOUNG, Norton!" I realized that Pixar took THAT exact scene and incorporated it into the scene where Randall and Fungus have to carry what they think is "the kid" over to the Scream Extractor!

pitbulllady

[pitvipersnake]

For the reasons you've just outlined I was also never keen on the idea of human antagonists. If there has to be a villain, which I'm not sure there does, another monster would work better.
I'm in favour of having most of the action take place in the monster world, because it's a whole world and we've really seen very little of it. It must have some seriously interesting (possibly dangerous) flora and fauna.
I'm not sure how this scenario would come about but what if the plot involved Randall and Boo being lost together in the wilderness outside the city of Monstropolis? Randall would then have to look after her and find food and shelter and protect her from the various carnivorous plants and animals until he could return her to Sulley and Mike. That would make it a much more personal story about Randall and Boo learning to trust each other, rather than some epic world-saving thing, which wouldn't really be relevant to Randall sorting out his inner demons.

[pitbulllady]

Apr 4, 2014 15:51:37 GMT -5 pitvipersnake said:

For the reasons you've just outlined I was also never keen on the idea of human antagonists. If there has to be a villain, which I'm not sure there does, another monster would work better.
I'm in favour of having most of the action take place in the monster world, because it's a whole world and we've really seen very little of it. It must have some seriously interesting (possibly dangerous) flora and fauna.
I'm not sure how this scenario would come about but what if the plot involved Randall and Boo being lost together in the wilderness outside the city of Monstropolis? Randall would then have to look after her and find food and shelter and protect her from the various carnivorous plants and animals until he could return her to Sulley and Mike. That would make it a much more personal story about Randall and Boo learning to trust each other, rather than some epic world-saving thing, which wouldn't really be relevant to Randall sorting out his inner demons.

I don't see why a sequel HAS to have a villain, either. One of the reasons I liked MU so much better was because it DIDN'T have any villains, and the antagonists were not portrayed as evil. Yes, Dean Abigale Hardscrabble is strict and no-nonsense and Johnny Worthington can definitely be a jerk, but neither of them are BAD when all is said and done. They do not have to be beaten or defeated in order for the protagonists to find a happy ending. Dean Hardscrabble actually came to admire Mike and Sulley and honored her promise to allow the rest of the OK's into the Scaring Program, and Johnny, it turns out, was really in the same boat as Randall all along and found that out himself at the beginning of the next school year. The more I think about it, the more I can understand his motivation for kicking Randall out of ROR, even. Neither he nor the Dean were evil or out to really hurt anyone. Dan Scanlon proved that you do not need a nasty villain in order to have a believable conflict and in order to show the strengths of your protagonists.

I really, REALLY do believe that in order for Randall to prove to the audience, as well as to Sulley, it MUST involve Boo, because it was his intentions for her in the original that really made so many people hate him and continue to hate him. For those people, Randall can save the entire Monster World and die a martyr, but they'll still say, "but he was going to put that little innocent girl in that seat and such the screams out of her with that awful machine"! He has to prove by HER that he's changed his way of thinking about human children. He is going to have to selflessly protect HER from some threat, whether it's nature or the CDA or whatever. That emotional scene, that Pixar tear-jerker, needs to involve Randall and Boo moreso than Randall and Mike and Sulley. Sulley will only forgive Randall if he sees that Randall means no harm to Boo and that Boo herself accepts and trusts him, and if not Boo, it needs to be some other young, helpless human child. There would certainly be plenty of things "in the wild" in the Monster World that are threatening and dangerous, and then, as I pointed out, there's the weather. This IS part of "Tornado Ally", after all. Randall does not need to have the world's spotlight on him in order to feel appreciated. He just needs ONE person to acknowledge his worth, something he's probably never had before, and if that one person is the one that he would have wronged the most, it makes his defeat of his own "inner demons" that much more powerful.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

What is "Calvin and Hobbs"? No, I do not wish to see another monster as a villain. Henry J. Waternoose already represents that, so to have ANOTHER monster be a villain would be unoriginal and very non-creative. It simply won't work. You're forgetting one thing: If Randall will EVER be able to save Boo, SOMEBODY else is going to have to do the threatening... and UNLIKE Randall, this villain needs to explicitly state "I will kill this girl if you, James P. Sullivan, do not do as I command.", and I still think it should be a human.

Think of Dolores Jane Umbridge from 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix'. She was a downright fanatical tyrant, SO irritating and SO vengeful, that Hermione hatched a clever scheme to lead Umbridge into the Forbidden Forest to get captured by the Centaurs; a proud race of creatures that most humans go out of their way to avoid at all costs. Hermione knew that Umbridge's outrageous bigotry and her arrogance would ultimately be her undoing.... and it worked.

The human villain is going to have to have his or her own vendetta against the monsters, and will hate Randall for simply being an obstacle that keeps him or her from reaching their goal. I'm talking a boastful, arrogant buttinski who is going to throw reality in the monsters' faces. I actually think that the evil human who threatens the monsters should be revealed to be a RELATIVE of Boo's, like an college-age 20+ year brother. In my mind, Boo CANNOT remain 100% all-sunny.... just like Randall CANNOT remain 100% all-evil. Remember how in 'Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows', it was revealed that the great and wonderful Albus Dumbledore had a few skeletons in his closet and shady incidents in his past? Well, I think Boo needs to have an immoral relative - someone who is EVERYTHING Boo wasn't, someone who hates Boo for their own reasons, someone will level out the plain in BOTH Sulley AND the audience's eyes. This can actually be accomplished much easier than you might think.

Believe me, once the CDA is defeated, the helpless cries of Celia Mae are heard, Sulley's weeping, the villain's arrogant boasts ring throughout the factory walls, all the employees of Monsters, Inc. have been beaten, Monsters, Inc. ceases to be Monsters, Inc., and Mike Wazowski is the ONLY free monster left in Monstropolis.... do you honestly think that even Randall's most vehement haters are going to doubt him? No. Once that light bulb pops into Mike's head to fetch Randall.... everyone will be thinking: "Okay, I see where this is going.... Randall Boggs will be the answer to everything. I don't know how this is going to work, judging by what we've seen of him in 'Monsters 1 and 2', but here goes...".

I want to see a film that says "Audience... you are going to have take the leap.", just moments before Mike has that heart-to-heart talk and Randall takes center stage in the narrative, where he confesses to Mike what his childhood, adolescence, college preparation, and initial meeting with Waternoose was really like. We can finally see that humble, rural house where Randall grew up, see how unfairly monster society treated him throughout the years during elementary and high school, and we can see how Randall's mother or caregiver taught him to be kind and to persevere against all odds. At this point, who CARES what Boo or Sulley thought? Boo hasn't even been BORN yet! The whole thing would be a V.I.P., first class ticket into 'A Day in the Life of Randall Boggs', and for awhile, all that would matter are Randall's thoughts, Randall's dreams, his hopes, his fears, his sorrows, his joys, maybe even one or two rare, serene smiles along the way. Here, it can finally be revealed that there's more to Randall than meets the eye. He's going to have to become the hero of his own story first, and WE, as the audience, will know that Randall is good, beyond a shadow of doubt... long before all of this reaches Boo and Sulley. Randall's change of heart CANNOT hinge 100% on whether he saves Boo (even though that indeed must come later for Sulley and Boo's benefit), because repentance comes from within. Only when Randall confesses his heart's deepest pains and yearnings to Mike and the audience while still in the human world, and admits how he was naive and gullible enough to be used by Waternoose, will he truly become good.

[pitbulllady]

"Calvin and Hobbes" was a very, very popular syndicated comic strip by Bill Watterston that ran in many newspapers worldwide up until 1995. It featured the adventures of "Calvin", a precocious, creative, intelligent but mischievous five-year-old boy and "Hobbes", a stuffed toy tiger, who was also Calvin's imaginary friend, who would come to life when no one else was around and was the voice of reason among the pair.

I have to respectfully disagree about Randall's change of heart needing some huge epic act of save-the-world heroism. I've kept up with the "pulse" of public opinion on Randall from the time I first learned of his existence, on many different sites, not just this one. Trust me, the overwhelming majority of the hatred directed at Randall stems ENTIRELY from what he was going to do with Boo and that Scream Extractor, and ALL of Sulley's animosity towards him stems from that and that alone. You are not going to change those fans' minds-and they make up most MI/MU fans-about Randall unless he proves that he not only isn't a threat to Boo, or any other human children, but actually is willing to lay down his own life to save her. Randall can save the entire planet but that won't quell that accusation, "but he was going to hurt that little girl! He was grinning as that horrible machine was about to suck the life out of her!" It will not erase that image in most people's mind, but seeing him make peace with her, seeing him change his whole way of looking at human children, and seeing him do something selfless to protect her will go a long way towards accomplishing that in both the audience's minds and Sulley's. Boo means more to Sulley than his own life, so he can let slide someone wanting to harm or even kill him, but he can't let go that easily of someone wanting to, from his perspective, hurt Boo. If Randall's big act of heroism does not involve her, it will be wasted on the majority of MI fans and on Sulley. Even if he saves SULLEY'S life, it won't have the impact of saving Boo's. I'm telling you-I'm on Deviant Art, I'm on Tumblr, I'm on IMDb, been on many other fan boards that don't even exist now-the main reason why so many people still hate Randall, still consider him evil, is because of the Scream Extractor. I have read comment after comment like, "I don't care if he WAS abused as a child, lots of people are abused and don't grow up to kidnap innocent little kids and experiment on them!" These people, who are NOT a minority, don't CARE about Randall's childhood so much as what he wanted to do with a human child. They need to see irrevocable, indisputable evidence that he is sorry for that, that he knows it was wrong, that he will do whatever possible to make it up to her whether or not she even remembers him. Showing some flashbacks, at the beginning, as with Mike in MU, will help give a REASON as to Randall's real motives, but it won't change what happened or make that any easier for people to forget. Audiences have to see that proof that Randall's attitude towards human children has changed.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Forgive me, but I don't condone viewer impatience by the majority, regardless of how many people hate Randall. I keep forgetting... you have not yet read or seen 'Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows'. My every inclination and line of thought about what should happen to Randall stems heavily from "The Prince's Tale" revelation sequence. For me, the ENTIRE year of 2011 revolved around the final Harry Potter film, and BELIEVE me, once you see it, you'll know where I'm coming from. I told you, I saw it 7 times in the theater and cried like a baby every time it got to Snape's Memories. I was NOT saying that I was against the idea of Randall's redemption involving him saving Boo AT ALL. You didn't read my post correctly. It looks to me like we were patting two different body parts of the same elephant blindfolded (hope you understand that analogy). All I'm saying about Randall saving Boo is: It... can... WAIT.

ALL the steps I described are close to what happened to Snape. Viewers were NOT given the reason of why Snape killed Dumbledore right off the bat... no, they had to WAIT. First, we had to see Snape's childhood, his friendship with Lily, his sorting ceremony, when he first met Dumbledore, his tearful promise to protect Harry at all costs, his conflicts with Harry over James Potter, THEN.... we learned that Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders.

I see no reason why Randall can't re-enter the story and make amends with Mike BY THEMSELVES in the human world, WITHOUT Sulley or Boo at the BEGINNING of the last third of 'Monsters 3', but not actually save Boo and gain Sulley's respect until the END of the final battle. Everyone loves a little suspence... you can't deny that. Make sense?

Randall has complete, unrestrained freedom to state to Mike how he views himself, what his deepest feelings are, and where he stands morally. If this arouses skepticism in most viewers, and all those "but, but, buts" about Boo and the Scream Extractor, then LET them doubt Randall, for crying out loud! Every nay-sayer is only gonna be proven wrong, so there's no problem with letting the story gradually unfold. Every movie does! Do you really think a tearful flashback will be construed as anything other than the truth? Randall has to have a REASON to come back to the Monster World, and to have something to fight FOR. That would lose its emotional impact if Randall just shows up in the Monster World again for unknown reasons and saves Boo first, THEN we get this flashback showing what life was like for Randall. That wouldn't work... it just wouldn't. Randall's personal backstory MUST be shown before he returns to the Monster World with Mike, so that viewers will understand that Randall's motives for stopping the humans are motivated out of selflessness and a determination to set things right. Indeed, saving Boo must happen, but it can wait till the last.

Sequence of events:

1. Mike locates Randall in the Human World.

2. Mike and Randall have their heart-to-heart talk.

3. Randall's backstory is shown.

4. Randall forgives Mike, and Mike forgives Randall.

5. Randall and Mike return to the Monster World.

6. Randall stays invisible and in hiding while he foils the human villains' evil schemes.

7. Randall dispatches the lackeys, but the leader escapes.

8. The human leader uses Boo as a hostage and attempts to break Sulley's will by threatening her life AND torturing her.

9. Mike attempts to stop him, but fails. Everything now falls squarely on Randall's shoulders, he reveals himself to Boo while Sulley isn't looking, so Boo will know when she is rescued that it was Randall.

10. Randall intervenes on Boo's behalf, where he then risks his life to stop the human leader, then frees Boo.

11. Sulley opens his eyes to see Boo free... he wonders how this happened. Randall materializes before him, and Sulley sees that Randall saved Boo's life.

12. Sulley thanks Randall, and Randall confesses to Sulley that he's a changed monster, and he apologizes for kidnapping Boo, then he frees Sulley from his cage.

So WHAT if people initially doubt Randall during a revelation scene? He's only gonna TOTALLY prove the whole world wrong in like 15 minutes from then when he saves Boo! Every viewer in the world will know what's going on for their second viewing and onward! So, what gives?