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Post by RandallBoggs on Mar 12, 2014 23:03:13 GMT -5
Ah thank you for that...wow, fast....
Seems he's focusing more on the rope going up at the moment...but yeah, given all that was going on, room enough to say that he didn't know what was fully going on.
That's a thought, that "everyone" was in on it. AND it works with the expression too. While Randall's not fully sharing into things with the RORs, once it seems to get in that (in this thought) the OKs actually WEREN'T in on the charity thing...he realizes he should at least say "sorry", but a portion of himself blocks that out saying "you REALLY going to do THAT in front of THEM?"
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 12, 2014 23:32:01 GMT -5
Ah thank you for that...wow, fast.... Seems he's focusing more on the rope going up at the moment...but yeah, given all that was going on, room enough to say that he didn't know what was fully going on. That's a thought, that "everyone" was in on it. AND it works with the expression too. While Randall's not fully sharing into things with the RORs, once it seems to get in that (in this thought) the OKs actually WEREN'T in on the charity thing...he realizes he should at least say "sorry", but a portion of himself blocks that out saying "you REALLY going to do THAT in front of THEM?" I believe, and have since I first saw the movie, that part of Randall's pledge to ROR was that he would not associate with Mike or the OK's, not directly. Note Randall's expression when Johnny catches him talking to Mike and calls out to him at the Scare Games sign-ups, where he wouldn't have expected to see Mike in the first place, how Randall looks absolutely terrified when he hears Johnny call him! That's when he puts his hand up to the corner of his mouth in that conspiratorial manner as he tells Mike, "please don't blow this for me, Mike". I really think that was because he was not supposed to talk to Mike in the first place, and he was afraid that he'd already be in trouble for that. You can see that there are several scenes where Randall looks like he WANTS to speak up and say something, either to Mike or to Johnny(bet THAT would have gone really well), but he just can't. He's scared of being kicked out of ROR, whom he believes is his only chance at acceptability, he's scared that Johnny might very well become violent if he does. It's a moot point to state that Johnny doesn't physically harm anyone in the movie(unless you count that Jethro Gibbs head-slap he delivers to Chet) or that it's not his style. Johnny is big and he's strong, and Randall already seems to have had some unpleasant experience with those big muscle-bound type guys. He is just leery of guys like that in the first place. Saying that Johnny didn't actually hurt anyone is like looking at a 12-foot, 900-pound alligator cruising towards you on a pond and saying, "well, I've never seen him attack anyone, so I'm just going to ignore him because I don't think he means business". Johnny and that alligator have some key things in common: they're both big, powerful, and are physically designed to be able to put a major hurtin' on someone! Disregarding that potential could prove very costly indeed. Whether or not Johnny would ever have done anything to Randall didn't matter. What mattered was that Randall BELIEVED that he would. pitbulllady |
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Post by randallsnape7 on Mar 13, 2014 4:28:23 GMT -5
Oh... all that evidence of ROR kicking Randall out of the fraternity and then deliberately soiling his sweater (which was a mark of honor) is just so heartbreaking! Honestly, how much humiliation can Randall endure? Two whole films of non-stop pain and humiliation for our sweet purple monster friend...
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 13, 2014 14:05:04 GMT -5
Oh... all that evidence of ROR kicking Randall out of the fraternity and then deliberately soiling his sweater (which was a mark of honor) is just so heartbreaking! Honestly, how much humiliation can Randall endure? Two whole films of non-stop pain and humiliation for our sweet purple monster friend... This is the problem I have with the people who say that there was nothing "tragic" in Randall's back-story to cause him to turn out the way he did in MI, no excuse, in other words. They don't notice stuff like this and even I never noticed that sweater lying there on the bench because I was focusing on Chet acting like a goofy fan-boy, lol. It's like the Perry brothers said, " MISdirection! We don't KNOW if someone from the ROR's did that, or if Randall did it himself, though the former seems more likely. If Randall had done it, with the other ROR's standing right there, you can be sure THEY would have noticed him doing that had a LOT to say about it, with or without Johnny's presence! I'm thinking one of them, probably Chet, since he was nearest in proximity and never seemed to like Randall much anyway. Chet definitely has jealousy issues, and he fixates on people with a lot of status and a well-known family name. That's why he got all wound up over learning that Sulley was one of THE Sullivans, and never said anything negative to or about Sulley, but right off the bat we see Chet making fun of Randall's blending skills, and he's the only one, aside from Johnny, who says anything to Randall after that Scare Competition. You can bet that if at any point during the duration of the Scare Games, Johnny had said anything positive to Randall, praised him in any way, that would have gotten under Chet's shell like a richardleburr! pitbulllady |
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Post by conteremo on Mar 13, 2014 17:03:02 GMT -5
I wonder if Randy would've accepted Mike's plea to join OK if ROR had never invited him to join them.
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 13, 2014 17:47:20 GMT -5
I wonder if Randy would've accepted Mike's plea to join OK if ROR had never invited him to join them. I'm positive that he would have. Randall had nothing against Mike at that point and they would have still been roommates, and had he been in a position to continue to help Mike, I don't think he would have hesitated. A lot of people claim that Randall was just trying to become "one of the cool kids", that he was a social climber who always had thought himself "too good" for Mike and was just waiting for an opportunity to drop him, but Randall doesn't come across that way to me at ALL. To Randall, everyone outside of himself is "cool", and I honestly think he was so lonely and desperate for friendship and a social group to which he could belong at that point, he would have accepted anyone's invitation. Had he NOT been in ROR already, he would have nothing to lose by accepting Mike's offer, would he? It's not like he would have been giving up anything, after all, because he would not have HAD anything to give up by joining OK, if he had not gotten asked to join ROR. I know that there are plenty of nay-sayers who will claim that Randall wouldn't have found the OK's to be "cool" enough, but consider MIKE'S reaction to Johnny pointing them out at the Rush party and suggesting that Mike join them, saying, "THEY look like fun"; Mike's response was, "Is that a JOKE?" He actually makes a face when he turns to look at the OK's, following where Johnny was pointing, so Randall couldn't have thought any worse of them than Mike already did! pitbulllady |
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Post by randallsnape7 on Mar 13, 2014 17:57:57 GMT -5
UGH! There has GOT to be some important revelation related to Randall's childhood and the days before joining Monsters University to clear all of this up!
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Post by RandallBoggs on Mar 13, 2014 19:38:06 GMT -5
Not a pleger personally, so unsure of the types of pledges that Fraternities give. Avoiding another fraternity (maybe to avoid probation or conflict) may seem like more advice than a part of a pledge, and avoiding a person entirely would seem kind of weird.
Still, makes sense, and gives more to the fact that Randall wasn't the one to break the relationship with Wazowski. Him moving through the crowd may have been his way to try and have Wazowski not notice him and get him called out by Johnny. And when he was, the "don't blow this for me" bit was the pledge talking.
Power of presence, Johnny can have....
------
If Randall did it himself, the sweater, pretty much understandable. He was a freshman who kept up with the great ROR house, pulled his own weight every time and was a perfect (obvilously reluctant) person to manipulate.
Forget the name of the one guy...the green ROR...he's been with them longer and he screwed up, yet he gets off with little more than a face from Johnny (who did as such to a screen, not the monster himself, who was just all full of himself coming out of the door.
To Randall, he thought he was part of a brotherhood...and that that should come with foundations of support. But once he slipped up ONCE and when he KNEW it wasn't his fault...their attack on HIM was more than enough to get him to leave.
Sad, completely...but he left people who didn't really care about him in the first place...and that kind of keeps following him around when he was younger....
-----
As for joining OK, Randall may have been reluctant. Now if the RORs never invited him, that reluctance comes from his friendship with Wazowski. A hesitation stemming from the fact that Wazowski didn't listen to his advice...advice that may have kept him in the Scareing program.
Now...as he might have done afterward, Randall may have council-ed Wazowski, trying to keep him from less than savory options of such a drop. Now, if that improved their relationship then...yes, he would probably join.
The RORs were the big shots...yes...but joining a fraternity, at least in Ran's mind at the time, was simply boiled down to "being accepted". If OK accepts him, then yes, it would be giving him just what he gained in ROR (aside from, perhaps, that with the OKs it's more genuine.)
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 13, 2014 21:40:02 GMT -5
Not a pleger personally, so unsure of the types of pledges that Fraternities give. Avoiding another fraternity (maybe to avoid probation or conflict) may seem like more advice than a part of a pledge, and avoiding a person entirely would seem kind of weird. Still, makes sense, and gives more to the fact that Randall wasn't the one to break the relationship with Wazowski. Him moving through the crowd may have been his way to try and have Wazowski not notice him and get him called out by Johnny. And when he was, the "don't blow this for me" bit was the pledge talking. Power of presence, Johnny can have.... ------ If Randall did it himself, the sweater, pretty much understandable. He was a freshman who kept up with the great ROR house, pulled his own weight every time and was a perfect (obvilously reluctant) person to manipulate. Forget the name of the one guy...the green ROR...he's been with them longer and he screwed up, yet he gets off with little more than a face from Johnny (who did as such to a screen, not the monster himself, who was just all full of himself coming out of the door. To Randall, he thought he was part of a brotherhood...and that that should come with foundations of support. But once he slipped up ONCE and when he KNEW it wasn't his fault...their attack on HIM was more than enough to get him to leave. Sad, completely...but he left people who didn't really care about him in the first place...and that kind of keeps following him around when he was younger.... ----- As for joining OK, Randall may have been reluctant. Now if the RORs never invited him, that reluctance comes from his friendship with Wazowski. A hesitation stemming from the fact that Wazowski didn't listen to his advice...advice that may have kept him in the Scareing program. Now...as he might have done afterward, Randall may have council-ed Wazowski, trying to keep him from less than savory options of such a drop. Now, if that improved their relationship then...yes, he would probably join. The RORs were the big shots...yes...but joining a fraternity, at least in Ran's mind at the time, was simply boiled down to "being accepted". If OK accepts him, then yes, it would be giving him just what he gained in ROR (aside from, perhaps, that with the OKs it's more genuine.) I dated a frat boy in college, and YES, many fraternities DO prohibit their new pledges from associating with members of rival fraternities, at least during their pledge/probationary stage, as proof of their loyalty. It's a very common thing, actually. I am less inclined to believe that Randall himself dirtied that sweater, not because he would not have felt like it, but because he wouldn't have been able to get away with that, not with Chet, Chip, Javier and Reggie standing RIGHT THERE beside him. They might have even done this before Randall came out of the Simulator, because they could all see what was going on inside on the closed-circuit wide-screen television, so Johnny KNEW that Randall had failed, and changed into that heart pattern, before the Scare was even over, before Randall himself knew what had happened. Johnny's mind was probably already made up about kicking Randall out and trashing that sweater because in his opinion, Randall had already disgraced it and the ROR name, and no one else would ever want to wear that sweater again. It would be like an officer symbolically stripping any medals or badges won by an underling who'd gotten dishonorably discharged, who'd brought shame to his company. Randall would have found the sweater like that once he returned to the ROR sidelines, making their decision quite clear. He probably just left right after Johnny and Mike got inside their respective Scare simulators, leaving that sweater behind. I don't get any impression that Randall harbored any ill-will towards Mike after Mike was kicked out, and watching Randall's face as he fades into the alcove in class as the Dean is administering her judgement, it is clear that he was very saddened by this. Now, it's possible that whoever was sending him to college, whatever family members he still had, MIGHT have told him the same thing that my parents told ME about hanging out with trouble-makers, that they were paying to send ME to get an education, but they were NOT paying for anyone else's kid, so if I chose to hang around with someone and do things that would ultimately hurt MY chances of getting a successful education, that I better not expect them to bail me out and keep paying for me to do that! In other words, I'd better choose my friends wisely. We know that the Winter/Christmas break would have been immediately after that exam day, which was in mid-December, so it's possible that after learning that Randall's roommate, whom he claimed was a friend, had gotten in big trouble and gotten himself kicked out of the Scare Program, Randall's parent/guardian might have laid down that same ultimatum to HIM, out of concern that he'd be judged by the company he kept and wind up getting kicked out of the program that THEY were paying for himself-guilt by association. Other than that, though, I think that if Randall had had the chance to still be friends with Mike, he would have leapt at that opportunity. pitbulllady |
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Post by RandallBoggs on Mar 13, 2014 21:46:23 GMT -5
Hm, still seems weird to me...but I guess in some ways, better than "other" stuff that is issued to be done for pledging.
It's an option thought being entertained.
Granted, the four would be distracted by the deciding run, considering Johnny IS their leader and that Wazowski is their target, albiet a target that made himself as such.
But yes, seems more likely one of the others did so.
It's not a question of ill-will, more like discomfort that Wazowski didn't listen to him when it mattered. Others, such as the one we see about the frat party, weren't too disheartening...but in a situation where Wazowski endangered his scareing career, he didn't listen when Randall advised him to move away.
This, along with previous instances would have made him weary...but, considering the other OKs, forgot to include them, he would join to see an opportunity to at least try again.
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 13, 2014 22:16:07 GMT -5
Hm, still seems weird to me...but I guess in some ways, better than "other" stuff that is issued to be done for pledging. It's an option thought being entertained. Granted, the four would be distracted by the deciding run, considering Johnny IS their leader and that Wazowski is their target, albiet a target that made himself as such. But yes, seems more likely one of the others did so. It's not a question of ill-will, more like discomfort that Wazowski didn't listen to him when it mattered. Others, such as the one we see about the frat party, weren't too disheartening...but in a situation where Wazowski endangered his scareing career, he didn't listen when Randall advised him to move away. This, along with previous instances would have made him weary...but, considering the other OKs, forgot to include them, he would join to see an opportunity to at least try again. It would not have mattered that Johnny's competition would be the "deciding run", as you put it. I don't even think it was because Randall LOST, so much as the fact that he changed into that pink hearts pattern. THAT is what PO'd Johnny so much, because that was seen as "cute", and to monsters like Johnny, cute=WEAK, not scary. That's why he made such a big deal of the OK's being cute and adorable. Those are horrible adjectives from a monster perspective, to be used to describe a monster! Those hearts were why Johnny felt that Randall had dishonored the fraternity, and it's not out of the question that Johnny could have also thought that Randall did that on purpose because he still secretly sympathized with Mike. As has been pointed out, Johnny might NOT have known that Randall did not yet have full control over "the thing", as he called it, and that Randall had a tendency, especially when he was under stress or startled, to spontaneously change into whatever patterns and colors were around him, PLUS, from Johnny's perspective, he probably could not see that RUG on the floor, since it was flat, and therefore didn't realize that the rug was the basis for Randall's pattern. To him, it would have appeared that Randall just CHOSE to be pink with hearts for some stupid reason, and that very well could explain why Johnny let Reggie's epic screw-up slide without so much as a raised eyebrow, while getting totally livid over Randall's performance. If you recall, attendants came in and changed the floor layout of each Simulator room after each competition, so that upcoming competitors would not be able to see the floor as it would be, with the toys and whatnot's, when THEIR turn came up. That way, they could not have memorized it and would have to rely on training and skill to avoid stepping on the toys. OK, went back and checked, and the rug IS there when Johnny does his scare, but Johnny approaches from the foot of the bed, while that rug was off to the side, and it was on the OPPOSITE side of the bed from the audience's perspective, so Johnny would not have seen it. You can only see it in that instant when he leaps up onto the foot of the bed and you just barely see the edge of a rug to the left side of the bed, which was the side where Randall had been clinging to the wall. Johnny was focused totally on that robot "kid" and unless he'd made an effort, for some unaccountable reason, to peer over the left side of the bed and look at the floor, he could not have noticed that rug, therefore Johnny had no idea that Randall's pattern had in fact come from that rug! pitbulllady |
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Post by randallsnape7 on Mar 13, 2014 22:59:29 GMT -5
I personally don't mind cute and adorable... it's actually a very good thing. I know that from an aspiring monster's perspective, being cute and adorable is the opposite of being scary, but from my own eyes... the red hearts and the pink complexion indicates (metaphorically) that Randall is not like the other ROR monsters. Yeah, he got that by accident... but still, maybe in the long run, it was for the best.
To me, Randall IS cute and adorable... whether he's purple, or assuming any pattern. I still love him!
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Post by RandallBoggs on Mar 14, 2014 21:18:25 GMT -5
Ok, with the hype about this issue, or at least the fact it's current, I decided to go back and take a look at things.
Through some study and observation, I managed to notice something. Now, this is coming from pixalation and a non-HD study, so just going from what I see, could be wrong.
Anyway...
I managed to glimpse the fade-away from the green-light to the field (when the go-light goes on along with the horn, it fades quickly to the field when Worthington and Wazowski go). It APPEARS that Randall is looking at Chip before whipping his head away to the side.
Looking at Randall near the start of things, as Johnny and Wazowski are just taking off...it APPEARS that Randall's upper right hand is clutching his opposite arm, as if somebody had punched him in it or something, or, as some might do, a gesture of hurt. Also, as PBL had pointed out sometime...he's not looking at Johnny, the RORs, Wazowski, or even Sullivan...he's looking down at the ground, off to the side.
Hard to catch this one...when Johnny and Wazowski speed off, there's a space enough between them to catch a glimpse of Randall. Now I'm not sure at the moment, as I'll have to go back with a better look...but it appears Chet is looking at Randall in the background now...and Randall MAY be a little less visible...
Well, if there was any time to go invisible and get out, it would be at the drop of the hat...maybe the horn was his personal signal to go ghost and split...
Actually...looking at the wide-shot when OK wins (after whats-her-name practically chokes Mr. Falcon-looker) (when we get a field shot and the confetti is dropping down), Randall is still there it seems. Everyone would be looking for the red shirt...but Randall is still not wearing his, and there IS a monster there that has his shape. It's not someone pouring down from the stands either, as that shape remains static alongside the RORs.
This would actually have been his time to leave...after all, a big crowd was pouring in...perfect opportunity.
Anyway, just some notices. I'll look again sometime with more precise insturments.
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 14, 2014 22:24:54 GMT -5
Ok, with the hype about this issue, or at least the fact it's current, I decided to go back and take a look at things. Through some study and observation, I managed to notice something. Now, this is coming from pixalation and a non-HD study, so just going from what I see, could be wrong. Anyway... I managed to glimpse the fade-away from the green-light to the field (when the go-light goes on along with the horn, it fades quickly to the field when Worthington and Wazowski go). It APPEARS that Randall is looking at Chip before whipping his head away to the side. Looking at Randall near the start of things, as Johnny and Wazowski are just taking off...it APPEARS that Randall's upper right hand is clutching his opposite arm, as if somebody had punched him in it or something, or, as some might do, a gesture of hurt. Also, as PBL had pointed out sometime...he's not looking at Johnny, the RORs, Wazowski, or even Sullivan...he's looking down at the ground, off to the side. Hard to catch this one...when Johnny and Wazowski speed off, there's a space enough between them to catch a glimpse of Randall. Now I'm not sure at the moment, as I'll have to go back with a better look...but it appears Chet is looking at Randall in the background now...and Randall MAY be a little less visible... Well, if there was any time to go invisible and get out, it would be at the drop of the hat...maybe the horn was his personal signal to go ghost and split... Actually...looking at the wide-shot when OK wins (after whats-her-name practically chokes Mr. Falcon-looker) (when we get a field shot and the confetti is dropping down), Randall is still there it seems. Everyone would be looking for the red shirt...but Randall is still not wearing his, and there IS a monster there that has his shape. It's not someone pouring down from the stands either, as that shape remains static alongside the RORs. This would actually have been his time to leave...after all, a big crowd was pouring in...perfect opportunity. Anyway, just some notices. I'll look again sometime with more precise insturments. You are right about both observations: Randall IS holding his upper arm with the other arm, in a manner of someone who'd been either punched in the arm, or was feeling emotionally hurt, because many people do that when they are feeling extremely vulnerable, whether or not they've been physically harmed. You are also correct in that it does appear that Randall is standing beside Javier and the other ROR's after Claire grabs Brock and the crowd starts going wild. If you look VERY closely, you can see him in this screencap, on the right side of the picture; look for Johnny first because it's easy to spot him:  In the following scenes, from Mike's perspective as he stands outside his Simulator box watching the crowd go crazy, in the first shot, you can make out some of the ROR's on the extreme left, but all of them leave the field immediately afterwards and you don't see them at all even when the camera pans waaay back, and it's hard to miss Johnny or Javier because they're both so tall and Johnny's horns really make him stand out. No ROR's. I have to assume that this is when they dealt with formally kicking Randall out, if that does indeed happen. Here is the scene below where you can see the ROR's; I see Johnny and Chet and can make out Javier, but unless that patch of blue right behind Javier's legs is Randall's tail, I don't see Randall.  If I recall, right after Randall comes out of his Simulator box and literally runs into Johnny, and they all are giving him this "eat you-know-what-and-die" look, Johnny says something to the effect of having to get ready for his Scare competition against Mike and there's this implication that he is going to deal with Randall when it's over. pitbulllady |
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Post by RandallBoggs on Mar 14, 2014 22:33:17 GMT -5
Wow...even with a non-HD copy and pausing at the right times in a pixalated-wonderland I still manage to get the observations right...wow, surprised myself...yay? Yes, yay.
Yes, the arm grabbing is sorta a shy sign...seen sometimes in old films or cartoons...where the character does such an action whether hurt or feeling embarrassed (such as when "the kid" asks "the girl" for a date or something). While I'm more on this front...there is also the possibility that Chet jabbed him when he came over to stand on the side with the rest of the group.
Yes, see, his lanky form is there, without the sweater still.
Now, if Johnny aimed to do as you said PBL, the rest of the RORs would be careful to note where Randall is so he doesn't escape what's coming to him...so, seems understandable that once they are enveloped by the crowd (and shock of OKs win) is the point where he gets out of there.
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