Monsters, Inc. vs. the Smithsonian?

[randallsnape7]

AAAAH! It just hit me!

What if the human organization that invades Monstropolis were a group of people who worked at the SMITHSONIAN? There's PLENTY of science and politics to go around where the Smithsonian is concerned! It's clear to me that early in the 'Monsters 3' film, SOME human is going to have to 'be the first' to discover the Monster World. WE, as the audience, know that that's not true, though... because BOO is the first human to enter the Monster World. In fact, if the Smithsonian workers EVER got wind of that, they would be ALL OVER HER.... giving Randall the PERFECT opportunity to save Boo, because the Smithsonian workers would actually want to kidnap Boo and take her back into the Smithsonian as PROOF that their endeavors succeeded. Forget the Scream Extractor! From where I stand now, I totally see that a group of people WOULD have to be present when one of them 'discovers' a door to the Monster World, and they would ALL have to go in - mainly so they can be bona fide witnesses to the skeptical public upon their return. Otherwise, if Randall Boggs kicks only ONE guy's behind back into the Human World where he belongs, that man would eventually be committed to an insane asylum, because he would be muttering nonsensical stuff about 'Monster World', 'Alternate Universe', and 'I was attacked by a giant chameleon'!

What do you think of this idea? Feel free to discuss how the Smithsonian would first be introduced in 'Monsters 3'. We obviously will HAVE to have a scene that shows the humans in their own world, at the Smithsonian, and we'll have to see what happens before one of them finds a door that takes them into the Monster World. As far as might goes, I think humans who work at the Smithsonian would treat entering the Monster World and discovering their power and technology as if they just found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow... but obviously, to the MONSTERS, it would simply be a mindless invasion. It's possible that once they're there, and the leader of the group gets to knowing his way around the factory, he could learn about the CDA and present himself to the agents as a superior intellect, and IF he is searching for something in particular - like how to cut off all power in Monstropolis and cause a blackout, he COULD learn about child contamination and use that to his advantage, where he could THEN lie to the CDA that the employees who work at Monsters, Inc. are all involved in a cover up. The serial imprisoning of all the monsters (eliminating EVERYONE except Mike, Sulley, and Randall) would serve as the perfect diversion for the humans to locate the power source, and how to cut the power. By the climax, after Randall and Mike have returned to the Monster World, Randall could save Boo at that point, and together, all 3 of them; Mike, Sulley, and Randall could discover that the humans are trying to steal the power source and take it back to the Smithsonian.

The three heroes would have to act fast. The leader's followers could somehow pin, trap, or take both Mike and Sulley out of commission, and then... the leader could come in to the fray, and Randall could fight him, just one on one... in a duel that would end with Randall saving the power source of Monstropolis, then HE could banish the villain - as well as the other humans - through the door back into the Smithsonian, with a cute little twinkle in his eye and a big smile. This could be Randall's moment of glory... he would be in COMPLETE control.

Randall's last words to the villain could even be: "I learned to do THIS from my friends! In ya go!". I just now thought of that, but I think it would actually be EXTREMELY satisfying to see Randall get to banish the human villain in the same manner that HE was banished... that would have audiences cheering and applauding! Perfect poetic justice!

[pitbulllady]

Uh, no, I just do not see a legitimate scientific and historical organization in our world as "villains". These are the ones who DO uphold scientific principal, after all, and follow a strict code of ethics and are not looking to exploit anyone or anything, even if they do "bury" evidence that does not fit in with accepted scientific "norms". They are a museum and largely responsible for education, not exploitation.

Here is another thing to consider: defamation lawsuits. If you go and portray a very real entity, such as the respected Smithsonian Institute, as evil mad scientists out to exploit the denizens of another world, you're going to have a real problem on your hands. IF you're going to have the bad guys be some group or organization from the Human World, it has to be a made-up one, like Stephen King did in several of his books, where the group was BASED on some real group, enough that people could make that connection, but still different. He did that in Firestarter and some others, with a top-secret government agency called "The Shop", rather than use a real agency. The CDA already is a stand-in for our own NSA, without BEING the NSA, so that is already in place.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Yeah, I know. After about an hour when I posted that, I realized I had made a cheap shot. I apologize for that... let that speak volumes of how SET I am on redeeming Randall, and that's the last I'll say regarding the Smithsonian idea. Period. My Mom even told me something similar as well when I mentioned it to her, that it wasn't a good idea, BECAUSE the Smithsonian is a well-respected institute, and I want to state VERY clearly that I have NOTHING against the Smithsonian whatsoever. So, yeah... sorry. All I know is that Randall will NOT... be the villain.

I know it may be hard for you to approach, according to your past posts, but I STILL think that a group of geeky teenagers (maybe a group of 4) between the ages of 16-19, and OBSESSED with a Monster-killing videogame would be the EASIEST and LEAST-offensive depiction of villainy 'Monsters 3' could hope possibly for. I REALLY haven't shied away from that whole notion at all... not for a second. Thinking about it today made me chortle and laugh and enjoy myself in several places, and as I stayed on that train of thought, I thought up some really neat, creative stuff. It would also be family-friendly, which is what Disney goes for.

Teenagers have been shown to frequently act on their own accord and not really have any concern about whether or not they're following the rules - take the 'MONK' episode "Mr. Monk and the Buried Treasure" (Episode 6, Season 6) for example. When Troy Kroger and his pals came to Adrian's apartment to tell him about the map that they believed lead to buried treasure, Natalie warns Monk that 'they're teenage boys, which means they're more than likely up to no good'. Just imagine a deluded, EVIL version of 'The Goonies' to get the picture for what I'm seeing for 'Monsters 3'. They come, they see, they conquer.

Hope you understand.

[pitbulllady]

Yeah, but the thing with video-game-obsessed teenagers is that they're not really much of a threat to something alive, and it would be waaaay too easy to go with that stereotype of dorky, air-headed teens. MU sorta already made fun of those, with the "Don't Scare The Teen" Scare Games challenge; remember "But Daddy, I LOVE him" and "You're lame"? One of the original MI scripts actually had a teenager/adolescent as the invading threat that stopped by the original Power Trio(Mike, Sulley and Randall, or "Ned" as he was called at one point) and Pixar decided that really wouldn't be a threat to a bunch of monsters. I mean, assuming that these kids are obsessed with monster-hunter video games, what weapons are they going to use against living, flesh-and-blood monsters, some of whom can breathe fire, or fly, or become invisible, and most of whom have a built-in arsenal of fangs, claws and horns? Now that word is getting out that humans aren't toxic, they've got to have a lot more than just video game experience to take over an entire advanced civilization, wouldn't you think? How would that work? Any ideas on how they'd do that, really be a genuine threat?

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Simple.

Obviously, the best time for teenagers to 'discover' the Monster World would have to be after Factory Hours, once all the employees have gone home for the evening. They would obviously be in awe, and say things like "WHOA... hey, dude! Check it out!", and they would have the WHOLE night to explore the building... even break into Sulley and Roz's office and read up on some of the Monster Files. They really wouldn't be 'air-headed' as far as stealth and teamwork go, and formulating their own covert plans to case the joint, sabotage the monsters' power source, cage the monsters, and change the whole factory to something cheap and flashy to boost their egos... but when it comes to realizing that they're in a place where they are not wanted, and being SENSITIVE to that... that monsters are like people, and they have feelings, their I.Q. wouldn't fill a thimble. Nor would they care. Randall would have to first scare the living daylights out of them. Cooperating with Mike and Sulley , he could even use light tricks, shadows, misdirection, and his invisibility to instill fear in the four teens, and not actually show himself until the right moment. THEN... he would have to banish them back through their doors in the same manner that he was banished - minus meat cleavers and all (which I think we can all agree that Randall really, really, REALLY needs the chance to do).

As far as ammunition to fight the monsters, ALL the teens would need are those paintball guns that shoot out goo. The monsters would have no IDEA that goo is harmless - they would think it's some sadistic weaponry like acid or contaminated glue, and they would not know (beyond being gooed for a time) that they CANNOT die from it. Also, Monsters have never really dealt with REAL LIFE teens yet. In that simulation at Monsters University, they were only rough paintings on board flaps... just a SIMULATION. That doesn't necessarily mean that ANY of those teens would say 'Daddy, I love him', 'Whatever...', and other sugarstick phrases. I think it's an enthralling idea that would make the third 'Monsters' film very interesting.

The closest I could describe the teens' threat would be like that of Jack Frost, from 'The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause'. Snide remarks and all. If any group of teens lost in their own little world discovered a portal to an alternate universe, they would automatically treat it as THEIR little world, where they wouldn't have to follow any rules or regulations, like they do in the Human World. Their unpredictability in how they conduct themselves would actually enable the group of teens to sidestep many of the problems one might expect the teens to encounter in the Monster World - that would make them very, very, very dangerous as far as the monsters are concerned... even Waternoose wouldn't like it.

Granted, in MU, there was that disclaimer sign that said 'Do not scare the teens', but I must say... if ANY monster could end up scaring teens, it would be Randall. It is important in the story that Randall realize that he is far more valuable and special than he could ever imagine, and that he has a unique gift that he can use for good and noble purposes. He needs that. It is also possible that after the events of 'Monsters 3', like in a fourth film or beyond... (if there is another film, mind you), Randall could possibly return to Monsters University as a teacher to lecture from time to time on that small branch of scaring for any and all potential pupils who might possess the gift to scare teens.

[pitvipersnake]

I don't really see why the threat in the third film has to come from humans rather than other monsters. I think that just a small group of humans, whether teenagers or adults, couldn't possibly be a threat to the entire monster world. On the other hand having the monster world become known to all humans, as would have to happen for a serious threat of war between the worlds, would either be ridiculous and unrealistic or would have to be the kind of very deep philosophical discussion of how two civilizations learn to co-exist, which would be unsuitable for a children's film.
I can see one scenario where a small group of humans could be a threat to all monsters. If one discovered the comedian coming into their child/younger sibling's room and got a group of friends together and kidnapped that one comedian. They could then make him tell them about the monster world. The human's best, and easiest, option then would be to make a good quality video of the monster talking about the monster world, the kind of video annalists could examine and say "Not faked". The humans could then send a message back to the monster world saying "We want your technology and/or money or this video will be all over the internet".
If the comedian who was kidnapped was Mike then it would be even harder for Sulley because his best friend's safety is on the line as well as the secrecy of the monster world. Randall's invisibility would also be a valuable asset in such a situation because he could find out where they'd taken Mike and get in to rescue him without being detected.

[pitbulllady]

The monsters DO have Paintball, actually, since there was a mention of a Paintball tournament in one of the books, so they'd be familiar with the "goo" from Paintball guns. That would not be a threat to them at all, and a bunch of teens running around Monstropolis pretending they're in a live-action video game would just be silly, sorry. IF there are humans involved as the antagonists, they need to be real threats, pose a real danger to monsters. They need to have the means to really cause harm to at least Mike or Sulley, if not the entire monster populace and it will probably take more than just scaring them to stop them. It will require intellect and planning to outsmart them more than anything else, and that's where Randall has the ability to really succeed, by combining that particular talent with his blending ability.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

The humans can't carry REAL guns because this is a family-oriented animated film. Also, what book or books are you talking about? At what point in what story do the monsters use paintball?

[pitbulllady]

Mar 12, 2014 22:18:37 GMT -5 randallsnape7 said:

The humans can't carry REAL guns because this is a family-oriented animated film. Also, what book or books are you talking about? At what point in what story do the monsters use paintball?

I had(have since lost it unfortunately during a move) a book, "The Monsters, Inc. Employee Handbook", which read just like a real company's employee handbook, and included a guide to Monstropolis and things to do when employees had free time, such as a restaurant guide and other leisure activities. One of these was a Paintball range. There was a map of the city, which showed that Monstropolis was located on the southern shore of a large body of water, and had a wharf district, where one of the restaurants and some trendy shops were located, and it had an uncanny resemblance to the overall layout of Chicago, on the southern end of Lake Michigan.

There have been other "real" guns in Disney movies, such as The Fox and the Hound. There were real frog gigs in The Princess and the Frog, and Syndrome sure had some very real and nasty bombs and missiles in The Incredibles, and they even showed the SKELETON of a murdered Super in that one, so I don't see why showing real guns, at least Monster World weapons, would be such a big deal. The thing is, the threat, whatever/whoever it is, HAS to be legit, not played for comic effect, otherwise the impact of whatever Randall winds up doing to stop it will be minimized. The audience themselves has to believe that the protagonists are in real, serious danger, and the audience will know that a bunch of kids running around brandishing Paintball guns is not a threat at all and will find it silly that the monsters would be afraid of them. Randall's heroism will be largely lost on the audience if they do not understand that he is in real danger and genuinely risking his own life in going up against this threat.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Yeah... um, I certainly see the angle you are coming from, but I simply don't see (content-wise) why Randall's redemption should call for World War III, or anything that hints at global politics, military might, terrorism, or actual juvenile delinquency. I... I think that's crossing the line, big-time. If four teens were seen wielding honest-to-goodness firearms, even against monsters, that would offend a HUGE number of audiences - not just 'Monsters' fans. This is not a speculation - it is a GUARANTEE.

I'm afraid I have to flip that coin over... seeing violent, destructive teens that would end up facing felony charges in the Human World would minimize ANY significance of Randall's redemption in the end. Not the other way around... I can tell you from hard and painful experience that I know a LOT of people - even friends of mine - who wouldn't sit through the whole movie if it showed that kind of violence... and they truly wouldn't give a rat's fart what happened to Randall if they had to sit through something like that first. One of the most difficult lessons of being a filmmaker/storywriter is being sensitive and knowing what's appropriate and not appropriate for a movie - ESPECIALLY a family-oriented one.

Case and point: Are you aware that the 9/11 attack is something 'The Lord of the Rings' director Peter Jackson took into account when when he was overseeing the visual effects for the destruction of the Tower of Barad-Dur in "The Return of the King"? To avoid even the SLIGHTEST hint at evoking the imagery of the twin tower attacks, Peter Jackson chose to abandon the idea of having the tower explode to having it shatter into a million pieces and have it fall to the side instead? This is a true story - you can hear it on "The Lord of the Rings: The Appendices Part 6 - The Passing of An Age" DVD.

What about the Aurora shooting that happened in Colorado during that midnight showing of 'The Dark Knight Rises'? Generally speaking, people who go to see an animated film are looking for true escapism - NOT just more of the real world. As to how you could use 'The Incredibles' as sole evidence as to why real guns wouldn't offend people in 'Monsters 3', I'll never know.

Furthermore: I saw 'The Hunger Games' once in the theaters, and - I'm sorry - but I was VERY offended at the sort of violent situations the teens depicted in the movie were thrown into. I know I'm probably one of the few people in the ENTIRE Western Hemisphere that hated the Hunger Games, but I did. I don't mind violence in movies, but seeing a group of teens in a movie commit such violent crimes against others and against one another is simply not entertainment to me.

I would strongly urge you to think this one through. In a moving and uplifting storyline centered around redeeming Randall Boggs, it would be wrong and VERY inappropriate to evoke in people's minds something as horrific and wrong as teens wielding illegal firearms, even if it is against monsters. As a rule of thumb, one should never 'cut off their nose to spite their face', if you understand the expression. This is NOT just me talking, these are things filmmakers take into SERIOUS consideration when making a movie, and I know this to be true. Since we know no monster is going to get killed in the story - Disney wouldn't allow it, not for a G rated movie - I think it's pointless to even follow this train of thought in the first place.

Lastly, consider this: Villains like Jack Frost and Dolores Jane Umbridge caused a GREAT deal of threat and havoc and mania, and they never had to do ONE thing that even hinted at anything that would resonate as a political, national, or militaristic-natured crime that would disturb audiences. Dwayne Lafontante the 'Verminator' in the DreamWorks film Over the Hedge was even seen commiting some fairly illegal acts in his dealings with RJ, Hammy, and the woodland critters, but his Depelter Turbo concoction is PURELY fictional, and was shown with comical, over-the-top, cartoonish effects... therefore, it was safe and unoffensive to show to audiences.

[pitbulllady]

Dark, shadowy groups with a not-so-nice agenda are nothing new, in animation or other forms of entertainment. If you want to connect to an audience, you need content that is relevant to the world THEY live in. No one would have figured that corrupt corporate business leaders would have made for an appealing animated movie, either, but MI proved otherwise, and closely mirrored the real-life ENRON scandal. Pixar doesn't "play it safe", and that's one of the reasons for their acclaim. Pixar's audiences are made up, statistically, of 60% teens or adults, not little kids, and if you play it TOO safe you're going to alienate the majority of the audience and then that "but it's only a KIDS' movie" accusation WILL be accurate.
I am not in favor of the antagonists being human teens in the first place, since the only way to do that without offending someone with the "violent gangsta teenagers" stereotype is to play it strictly for laughs, and then you minimize the actual level of threat. In this case, you have to realize that Mike and Sulley are not the only ones, not even the main ones, to whom Randall has to prove himself. His biggest challenge is convincing the AUDIENCE, that large portion who are NOT Randall's fans, who still see him as "evil" or "a douche bag" and don't believe that he's redeemable at all. He's got to do something BIG to convince THEM. He has to stop a very real and very dangerous threat at the risk of his own life, something selfless, or those people are not going to buy his sincerity. Whether the threat has weapons or not, it still has to have a means of hurting or even killing the protagonist(s), otherwise it's a hollow threat and Randall's victory over it will be lost on the majority of the audience. Audiences relate to things that are relevant in their own worlds, and secretive political groups with hidden agendas and power trips, terrorism, shady politicians, those things are in the news. You can have a shadowy group that kids that will understand to be the "bad guys", while at the same time the adults will think, "ah-HAH, they remind me of ____________" and will understand the parallels there.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

Usually in any truly dangerous threat, the attack starts on the edges, then closes in. What about some kind of derogatory defacing, dismantling, and revamping of the factory to suit the human invaders' own evil agenda? I would still like to see 'Monsters, Inc.' be temporarily redubbed something else - something very crappy - that is, until Randall finally saves it.

BY THE WAY.... I just recently saw the most intriguing movie, called "Now You See Me", which featured four magicians who use their trickery and misdirection to commit huge crimes. Just food for thought: What if an evil magician was somehow involved in the corruption of Monsters, Inc.? I also think that WHATEVER happens, the humans need to cause a blackout over Monstropolis, because that's the very thing Waternoose was trying to avoid in the second film. This would cause a huge threat, as the monsters would have no power at all.

[pitbulllady]

Mar 24, 2014 23:44:43 GMT -5 randallsnape7 said:

Usually in any truly dangerous threat, the attack starts on the edges, then closes in. What about some kind of derogatory defacing, dismantling, and revamping of the factory to suit the human invaders' own evil agenda? I would still like to see 'Monsters, Inc.' be temporarily redubbed something else - something very crappy - that is, until Randall finally saves it.

BY THE WAY.... I just recently saw the most intriguing movie, called "Now You See Me", which featured four magicians who use their trickery and misdirection to commit huge crimes. Just food for thought: What if an evil magician was somehow involved in the corruption of Monsters, Inc.? I also think that WHATEVER happens, the humans need to cause a blackout over Monstropolis, because that's the very thing Waternoose was trying to avoid in the second film. This would cause a huge threat, as the monsters would have no power at all.

That would work, and that is where it would really make sense for a group of monsters will ill intent to take over the factory, gradually, bit by bit, pretending to be acting in everyone's best interests, helping grow the economy, act as advisers to the CEO, etc. It's the "boiling frog" scenario, which works on the principal that if someone drops a frog in hot water, the frog will immediately recognize that as a threat to its life and leap out, while if someone puts the frog in COOL water, and gradually turns up the heat little by little, the frog will be content and not realize it's being cooked, so it won't attempt to escape. Governments and other political action groups use this all the time to gain control over a populace, and by the time the people realize they've been had, it's too late to stop the threat. A large utilities corporation would make a perfect target for such an organization because utilities corporations make up a large part of the economy, and everyone depends on them. Any time you can control something on which people depend, you can control the PEOPLE. Groups which seem to have your best interests at heart can be the most dangerous, and that applies towards individuals as well.

Waternoose was not actually trying to avoid blackouts, though. HE caused the blackouts! He was doing the exact same thing that the ENRON corporation was doing for years prior to 2001, using unethical means to artificially manipulate their own stocks, and generate an "energy crisis" and "electricity shortage", resulting in dozens of "rolling blackouts"(which we see actually mentioned in a newspaper headline in MI)on the West coast, to justify charging customers outrageous fees for electricity services. Waternoose knew that the company would not fail, that it would not just shut down. He was lining his own pockets with the profits from charging customers more and skimming stocks. He was creating that crisis so he could then be the one to "solve" it, making himself out to be everyone's hero in the process. An analogy would be those firemen you occasionally hear about who deliberately set fires to occupied buildings, so they can show up and save people and be in the spotlight. MI arrived in theaters right as the ENRON scandal was breaking, and the similarities were chilling.

pitbulllady

[randallsnape7]

If I may be so bold, the way you described Waternoose's scandal really reminds me of Patrick McKenna from Angels & Demons (also known as the Camerlengo, played in the film by Ewan McGregor).

Just in case you haven't seen the film, I'll explain the plot: Pitting God against Science, Partick McKenna found the five illuminati brands: "Earth", "Air", Fire", "Water", and the Papal Symbol, and hired a hitman to kill the Vatican's four cardinals, to make everyone believe that a religious war was igniting, but in actuality, it was all a scam just so HE could be named the next Pope. To twist the knife even deeper, he brands HIMSELF with the Papal symbol, frames the crime onto Command Richter (played by Stellan Skarsgard), then runs into a helicopter, clutching the container of antimatter, which explodes as he parachutes back down on Vatican Square, making himself LOOK like the hero.

Patrick actually manages to fool everyone until Professor Robert Langdon and Vittoria view a recorded tape via surveillance camera on a laptop concealed in a desk, which unveils in a typical 'shocking revelation' scene that Patrick was the criminal mastermind behind the whole thing.

It's a great movie. Well worth a watch if you haven't seen it.