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Post by pitbulllady on Jan 31, 2014 16:07:25 GMT -5
From someone who is pretty familiar with the concept of villains, actor Tom Hiddleston. This really explains why Randall is NOT a villain, and Waternoose IS...minus the part about the British accent(lol, Tom).
“A villain is in control. A villain is a mask of elegance and style, behind which is a whirring, and brilliant intelligence. But the trick is to make it all look easy. I think the best bad guys are very charming, and very witty, and their villainy, as it were, comes at the twist of a wrist or the flick of a finger. We never break a sweat. We don’t get our hands dirty. And the devil plays all the best tunes. Particularly in a British accent.”
- Tom Hiddleston
Randall was NEVER in control, nor did he act like he was. He acted like someone who was self-destructing, going to pieces emotionally and mentally. There was no elegance or style, just desperation. And then we can compare his demeanor to Waternoose's, with his cultured accent, his fine clothes, the calmness, poise and lack of emotion with which he shoves Mike and Sulley through that door into the Himalayas, a door he had brought down just for that very purpose, at his beck and call. Right up to that moment when Mike and Sulley unexpectedly turn up on that door with "the kid", he is still able to affect at least the appearance of being totally cool and in control. He knows that he can get anyone he chooses to do his bidding through manipulation and subtle threats. Waternoose comes across as charming, kind, and caring, and even when he confides his concerns about the company and the economy and the dissatisfaction of the BOD to Sulley, it's still with that sense of calm, no hint of panic or fear at all. Waternoose did not have to get his "hands dirty"; he made others get THEIR hands dirty so he would not have to.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jan 31, 2014 21:05:04 GMT -5
Some people would think that after 12 years+ we would have stopped needing to explain this. Personally, not surprised. Oh well, nice one Hiddleston.
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Post by pitvipersnake on Feb 1, 2014 13:10:10 GMT -5
12 years is nothing - It's been 400 years + since Shakespeare and we're still discussing whether Shylock is a villain or a victim. It's obvious to us that Randall falls on the 'victim' side of the line but I guess the debate about him will go on as long as anyone remembers the film 'Monsters Inc.' unless Pixar clear it up by doing a sequel with a proper redemption story for Randall.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 1, 2014 21:08:44 GMT -5
Nah, not even then. Maybe some people will start to understand, but never everyone. Humanity, as a whole, is practically incapable of doing such things for anyone or anything.
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 2, 2014 8:24:42 GMT -5
Nah, not even then. Maybe some people will start to understand, but never everyone. Humanity, as a whole, is practically incapable of doing such things for anyone or anything. I was thinking the same thing. Even if Pixar DOES do just that, give Randall a chance to redeem himself, there will still be a lot of people who will hate him. They see themselves as perfect, incapable of any wrong-doing, so they reserve that self-righteous position to condemn someone else. pitbulllady |
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Post by pitvipersnake on Feb 2, 2014 13:40:06 GMT -5
I think, while there will always be hard-core people who just hate him, most people would view Randall more positively if Pixar gave him a chance to redeem himself.
Most people take all films, especially animations, at completely face value, they just need it spelt out that Randall isn't evil. They will accept it if Pixar make it 'official'. Most people I know view Randall more positively since Monsters University.
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Post by mintygreen on Feb 27, 2014 1:59:51 GMT -5
Nah, not even then. Maybe some people will start to understand, but never everyone. Humanity, as a whole, is practically incapable of doing such things for anyone or anything. I was thinking the same thing. Even if Pixar DOES do just that, give Randall a chance to redeem himself, there will still be a lot of people who will hate him. They see themselves as perfect, incapable of any wrong-doing, so they reserve that self-righteous position to condemn someone else. pitbulllady I think that pretty much every character has someone who hates them. Characters that are considered controversial though, like Randall, will probably always have the strongest clashing opinions between different people. There will be LESS haters though if Pixar does come out with another movie that fixes things for Randall after all the pain he's been through(and I really hope they do because he deserves it.) Anyway that quote from Tom Hiddleston definitely applies and makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 27, 2014 20:49:46 GMT -5
Whoa! Here's food for thought: Once Mike seeks out Randall and finds him, he should let Randall know that Henry J. Waternoose was manipulating him. Poor Randall doesn't even know that Waternoose is evil! THERE'S a curious story point for us to ponder...
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 27, 2014 23:17:49 GMT -5
Whoa! Here's food for thought: Once Mike seeks out Randall and finds him, he should let Randall know that Henry J. Waternoose was manipulating him. Poor Randall doesn't even know that Waternoose is evil! THERE'S a curious story point for us to ponder... Yes, it is, but I don't think MIKE realizes, or cares, that Waternoose was using and manipulating Randall, not unless at some point Waternoose actually admits that fact to someone. Like you said in another post, Waternoose is going to try to pin all of this on RANDALL, making himself out to be the victim, who was only trying to "save the company", and all that bovine excrement. His lawyers are going to have a field day with Mike's video tape, too, since it was made not by law enforcement OR with Waternoose's knowledge and consent, and they'll really play the sympathy card for all it's worth. Unless Waternoose slips up and tells the wrong person how he was using Randall and Sulley, how he set up that entire situation, Mike will be happy believing that Randall was on equal footing with Waternoose and never feel so much as a slight twinge of guilt that Randall could possibly be dead. Mike KNOWS he is probably dead, and I don't doubt that Mike INTENDED for Randall to die. Mike did not pull down THAT particular door at random. As a Scare Assistant, it's part of Mike's job to be familiar with various doors and where they lead, and that was probably one of Sulley's own Scare kids, so Mike knew that it lead to Louisiana, to a part of the Human World where humans EAT large scaly creatures, and he probably checked to see that the humans were inside and awake, too, before opening that door so Sulley could throw a pleading Randall inside. If you watch that scene closely, especially in Hi-Def, there is actually a BLOODY BUTCHER KNIFE and a chopping block with a meat cleaver just inside that door, right behind Mike, and he turns at one point and LOOKS RIGHT AT THEM and SMILES! Mike KNEW what those things were used for and he knew what they meant for Randall. Assuming that Randall did survive and he and Mike meet up again, the only way that Mike is going to tell him that Waternoose was using and manipulating him is if MIKE is somehow going to benefit from Randall knowing that. It won't be for Randall's sake, trust me. If, for example, there is a chance of Waternoose being found Not Guilty or a mistrial being declared due to the one key witness against him, Randall, not being present to testify, risking that Waternoose will go free and no doubt exact a price from the ones who'd gotten him busted in the first place, or of him regaining his position at MI, toppling Sulley, Mike will do whatever it takes to convince Randall to take the witness stand against Waternoose, but that is to make sure that Waternoose can't do anything to MIKE later, not to console Randall or get him off the hook in any way. pitbulllady |
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Post by mintygreen on Feb 28, 2014 4:42:03 GMT -5
Whoa! Here's food for thought: Once Mike seeks out Randall and finds him, he should let Randall know that Henry J. Waternoose was manipulating him. Poor Randall doesn't even know that Waternoose is evil! THERE'S a curious story point for us to ponder... Yes, it is, but I don't think MIKE realizes, or cares, that Waternoose was using and manipulating Randall, not unless at some point Waternoose actually admits that fact to someone. Like you said in another post, Waternoose is going to try to pin all of this on RANDALL, making himself out to be the victim, who was only trying to "save the company", and all that bovine excrement. His lawyers are going to have a field day with Mike's video tape, too, since it was made not by law enforcement OR with Waternoose's knowledge and consent, and they'll really play the sympathy card for all it's worth. Unless Waternoose slips up and tells the wrong person how he was using Randall and Sulley, how he set up that entire situation, Mike will be happy believing that Randall was on equal footing with Waternoose and never feel so much as a slight twinge of guilt that Randall could possibly be dead. Mike KNOWS he is probably dead, and I don't doubt that Mike INTENDED for Randall to die. Mike did not pull down THAT particular door at random. As a Scare Assistant, it's part of Mike's job to be familiar with various doors and where they lead, and that was probably one of Sulley's own Scare kids, so Mike knew that it lead to Louisiana, to a part of the Human World where humans EAT large scaly creatures, and he probably checked to see that the humans were inside and awake, too, before opening that door so Sulley could throw a pleading Randall inside. If you watch that scene closely, especially in Hi-Def, there is actually a BLOODY BUTCHER KNIFE and a chopping block with a meat cleaver just inside that door, right behind Mike, and he turns at one point and LOOKS RIGHT AT THEM and SMILES! Mike KNEW what those things were used for and he knew what they meant for Randall. Assuming that Randall did survive and he and Mike meet up again, the only way that Mike is going to tell him that Waternoose was using and manipulating him is if MIKE is somehow going to benefit from Randall knowing that. It won't be for Randall's sake, trust me. If, for example, there is a chance of Waternoose being found Not Guilty or a mistrial being declared due to the one key witness against him, Randall, not being present to testify, risking that Waternoose will go free and no doubt exact a price from the ones who'd gotten him busted in the first place, or of him regaining his position at MI, toppling Sulley, Mike will do whatever it takes to convince Randall to take the witness stand against Waternoose, but that is to make sure that Waternoose can't do anything to MIKE later, not to console Randall or get him off the hook in any way. pitbulllady I sometimes wonder why Mike seems to hat Randall so much. I never really felt like Sulley hates Randall....but Mike really seems to. Is Mike secretly jealous of Randall...the fact that they both started out as nerds and somehow Randall managed to become a scarer but Mike did not? I sometimes wonder. :/ I know they had a falling out but to end up disliking a former friend so much that you want them to die....is really messed up. |
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 28, 2014 13:28:57 GMT -5
Which is PRECISELY why it is so crucial that Mike not be allowed to get away with what he got away with. I don't care HOW villainous Randall's greatest nay-sayer might think he is, Randall's survival is essential to keeping Mike's ego in check. It also ensures that both Mike and Sulley be held accountable for their actions.
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 28, 2014 13:36:29 GMT -5
I think that there is jealousy on both parts, although most people only focus on Randall as having that issue. You might very well have hit on something in suggesting that Mike resents Randall not so much because of Randall's participation in the ROR prank and him sticking with ROR instead of leaving them to join Mike's make-shift team, but also because of Randall's real accomplishments. Randall got excellent grades(otherwise he never would have been asked to join ROR, regardless of Johnny's ulterior motives), but didn't have to study 24/7 to do that, unlike Mike. Randall gets to become a successful Scarer, pretty much on his own, while Mike is just part of a team and would never have gotten onto a Scare Floor again had it not been for partnering with Sulley. We don't know, yet, if Randall remained at MU and earned a degree, or dropped out and went straight to work at MI, but in either case he didn't get KICKED OUT, as Mike did. Something else to consider, though: we have always assumed that it was RANDALL who was the highly competitive one, that his motivations were about winning. In fact that turned out not to be the case at all. Randall is not that competitive; he just wants to be liked and accepted. MIKE is the one obsessed with competition, with winning, with beating someone at something. Even though he and Sulley were at the top of the Scare Board and close to breaking that All-Time Scare Record, Randall was right behind them and closing fast. Randall still had a chance at that point. No one else was even close, not in that company, anyway. Randall was the only threat to Mike being able to prove that he was at least part of that team that became "The Greatest Scarers the World Has Ever Known", as he promises to himself in MU.
pitbulllady
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