Something interesting I found on TV Tropes! PLEASE READ

[Deleted]

I hope they make a sequel that would be cool. I hope Randall can be redeemed too, but Idk what they'd do in a sequel

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 7:01:16 GMT -5 creativegirl31 said:

Sept 13, 2013 3:09:44 GMT -5 @noobster said:

I hope they make a sequel that would be cool. I hope Randall can be redeemed too, but Idk what they'd do in a sequel

They DID state that they ARE going to make a sequel!

I hope Randall gets redeemed too! The original script for the sequel sounds like it would've been good!

But since they scrapped it, their probabl going to try something new...

Either way I hope they include Randall with another shot at a "Heel Face Turn"!

Nice! I can't wait, hopefully it comes out soon like a few years

[pitbulllady]

Actually, that planned sequel wasn't Pixar's. It was a script written by the now-defunct "Circle 7 Studios". For those of you who are relative newcomers to the fold, Circle 7 was created by then-CEO of Walt Disney Studios, Michael Eisner, for the sole purpose of creating direct-to-DVD sequels of Pixar's movies. You see, at that time, Pixar did not OWN the rights to their own characters. Part of the original agreement with Disney was that Disney would market and promote and distribute Pixar's movies in exchange for Disney have 100% ownership rights to the characters and franchises created by Pixar. Disney could do whatever they wanted with those characters and there was not a thing that Pixar could do about it. This was when the awful BOOM! Studios' "Laugh Factory" comics were written and produced, since Eisner sold the rights to that little-known studio for them to be able to use the MI characters however they wanted, and this is why so many people who are discovering those abominations believe that they are an official Disney-Pixar product. Pixar has no say at all in that deal or in how the characters were portrayed, actually. Steve Jobs and Michael Eisner practically waged all-out war over Pixar being able to secure the rights back to their own characters, once Pixar became a force to be reckoned with in the animation and movie-making business. Then, in January 2000, Disney fired Eisner and replaced him with Bob Iger as CEO, and Iger entered into the current equal partnership deal with Pixar: to share the ownership of the characters and franchises. John Lasseter and Ed Catmull of Pixar were named heads of Disney Feature Animation, and Circle 7 Studios was dissolved before ever having produced a single movie.
That said, I have heard from many sources that their first movie sequel was to have been MI2, and that it did indeed involve the plot you mentioned. I corresponded via email with Jess Winfield, who was one of the head writers and producers of the "Lilo and Stitch" tv series, and who was one of the writers on the MI sequel, since we were both members of the same L&S message board(now gone)at that time and he knew how I felt about Randall. Everyone in the "biz" who had seen that script was clear that it was a very well-written, very beautiful script, full of both laughs and tear-jerkers, and that fans of all three main monster characters, plus Boo, would have been very pleased with the result. Where that particular script is now, though, I can't say. I would guess that Disney still owns it, so perhaps it will eventually resurface and be made into a sequel by Pixar, now that they share ownership in those characters. Then again, Pixar might not want anything to do with it since they didn't write it, and they'd have to pay those writers handsomely for the rights to make it into a movie because those writers do not work for Pixar and probably none work for Disney, either, and they might not WANT their work turned into a movie for someone else. Don't get your hopes up that this is going to be the sequel that Dan Scanlon hinted at, folks, since it really is not that likely that Pixar will use the Circle 7 script, and they'll have to be careful with what they DO come up with that it isn't too close to that script, to avoid copywrite lawsuits. I'm just hoping that whatever Pixar chooses, they give Randall a chance to redeem himself and save the day, since it really makes no sense to have included him in MU otherwise, especially to show that he was not always "mean" or "evil".

I had posted on here many times that most of the scripts for MI either had Randall(or "Ned" or "Switt" or whatever he was known by in each version)as either a neutral character who was just rather grumpy and a "stick-in-the-mud", or as someone on the side of Mike and Sulley, and had all THREE written in as a "Power Trio" who save the day. In some versions, the "bad guy" was a human child, who in one version, was a really nasty little kid who delighted in tormenting animals, a budding serial killer, apparently, who got into the Monster World and had to be returned to the Human World without either the monsters or the brat being hurt, but the brat learning a lesson nonetheless! In most versions, Waternoose played little role at all, but in what was probably the second-to-final version, apparently the one mentioned on TVTropes, Randall has that "heel-face turn" and turns against his boss, siding with Mike, Sulley and Boo, when he finds out that Waternoose intended to cut him out and take all the credit for the Scream Extractor, resulting in all three having that final confrontation with Waternoose, which I believe was to have been MUCH more violent and nasty, with Waternoose trying to kill all three. Part of that decision to make the CEO into the main "Big Bad", I do believe, had to do with the fight going on at that time between Pixar and Michael Eisner, and Waternoose became symbolic for Eisner. I do not know whose decision it was to make Randall into the "overt bad guy", though, but I have heard that this was Eisner's decision, also, because he insisted that each Pixar movie HAD to have an obvious villain that everyone would hate, a classic "Disney Villain" who'd meet a horrific fate near the end of the movie, and I think that perhaps Pixar was afraid to push the envelope by making Waternoose THAT villain, hence his real motive and actions remain hidden for much of the movie, while all the negativity is focused on Randall, the "Reptiles are Loathsome" character, since it was figured that no one would like him, anyway.

Here is a link to an interview with two Circle 7 writers, btw, which gives a condensed version of the stormy relationship between Pixar and Disney and tells WHY Pixar could not have made sequels of their own movies up until now, and it includes some storyboards for the MI sequel, Lost in Scaradise, but no mention of Randall. It doesn't say that Boo was grown into a teenager, though, and in fact I've never read that anywhere that sounded "official", only that Mike and Sulley go to visit her on her birthday and find that she's moved away, so now they have to find her.
Circle 7 Studiosanimatedviews.com/2012/bob-hilgenberg-and-rob-muir-on-the-rise-and-fall-of-disneys-circle-7-animation/


By the way, did the TVTropes entry include any citations, as to the source of that information about Randall's role in the now-defunct Circle 7 sequel? You know that anyone can post whatever they like in that section, and that in general TVTropes is NOT kind to Randall at all, and still portrays him very negatively in their entry on MU. I did a Google search and I couldn't find anything verifying Randall even being in the sequel that was planned, other than what I had been told by a then-Disney writer/animator who was leaving to join Circle 7. I would love to find some confirmation that this is legit, even if it's not going to be made into a sequel anymore.

pitbulllady

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 19:43:16 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

Actually, that planned sequel wasn't Pixar's. It was a script written by the now-defunct "Circle 7 Studios". For those of you who are relative newcomers to the fold, Circle 7 was created by then-CEO of Walt Disney Studios, Michael Eisner, for the sole purpose of creating direct-to-DVD sequels of Pixar's movies. You see, at that time, Pixar did not OWN the rights to their own characters. Part of the original agreement with Disney was that Disney would market and promote and distribute Pixar's movies in exchange for Disney have 100% ownership rights to the characters and franchises created by Pixar. Disney could do whatever they wanted with those characters and there was not a thing that Pixar could do about it. This was when the awful BOOM! Studios' "Laugh Factory" comics were written and produced, since Eisner sold the rights to that little-known studio for them to be able to use the MI characters however they wanted, and this is why so many people who are discovering those abominations believe that they are an official Disney-Pixar product. Pixar has no say at all in that deal or in how the characters were portrayed, actually. Steve Jobs and Michael Eisner practically waged all-out war over Pixar being able to secure the rights back to their own characters, once Pixar became a force to be reckoned with in the animation and movie-making business. Then, in January 2000, Disney fired Eisner and replaced him with Bob Iger as CEO, and Iger entered into the current equal partnership deal with Pixar: to share the ownership of the characters and franchises. John Lasseter and Ed Catmull of Pixar were named heads of Disney Feature Animation, and Circle 7 Studios was dissolved before ever having produced a single movie.
That said, I have heard from many sources that their first movie sequel was to have been MI2, and that it did indeed involve the plot you mentioned. I corresponded via email with Jess Winfield, who was one of the head writers and producers of the "Lilo and Stitch" tv series, and who was one of the writers on the MI sequel, since we were both members of the same L&S message board(now gone)at that time and he knew how I felt about Randall. Everyone in the "biz" who had seen that script was clear that it was a very well-written, very beautiful script, full of both laughs and tear-jerkers, and that fans of all three main monster characters, plus Boo, would have been very pleased with the result. Where that particular script is now, though, I can't say. I would guess that Disney still owns it, so perhaps it will eventually resurface and be made into a sequel by Pixar, now that they share ownership in those characters. Then again, Pixar might not want anything to do with it since they didn't write it, and they'd have to pay those writers handsomely for the rights to make it into a movie because those writers do not work for Pixar and probably none work for Disney, either, and they might not WANT their work turned into a movie for someone else. Don't get your hopes up that this is going to be the sequel that Dan Scanlon hinted at, folks, since it really is not that likely that Pixar will use the Circle 7 script, and they'll have to be careful with what they DO come up with that it isn't too close to that script, to avoid copywrite lawsuits. I'm just hoping that whatever Pixar chooses, they give Randall a chance to redeem himself and save the day, since it really makes no sense to have included him in MU otherwise, especially to show that he was not always "mean" or "evil".

I had posted on here many times that most of the scripts for MI either had Randall(or "Ned" or "Switt" or whatever he was known by in each version)as either a neutral character who was just rather grumpy and a "stick-in-the-mud", or as someone on the side of Mike and Sulley, and had all THREE written in as a "Power Trio" who save the day. In some versions, the "bad guy" was a human child, who in one version, was a really nasty little kid who delighted in tormenting animals, a budding serial killer, apparently, who got into the Monster World and had to be returned to the Human World without either the monsters or the brat being hurt, but the brat learning a lesson nonetheless! In most versions, Waternoose played little role at all, but in what was probably the second-to-final version, apparently the one mentioned on TVTropes, Randall has that "heel-face turn" and turns against his boss, siding with Mike, Sulley and Boo, when he finds out that Waternoose intended to cut him out and take all the credit for the Scream Extractor, resulting in all three having that final confrontation with Waternoose, which I believe was to have been MUCH more violent and nasty, with Waternoose trying to kill all three. Part of that decision to make the CEO into the main "Big Bad", I do believe, had to do with the fight going on at that time between Pixar and Michael Eisner, and Waternoose became symbolic for Eisner. I do not know whose decision it was to make Randall into the "overt bad guy", though, but I have heard that this was Eisner's decision, also, because he insisted that each Pixar movie HAD to have an obvious villain that everyone would hate, a classic "Disney Villain" who'd meet a horrific fate near the end of the movie, and I think that perhaps Pixar was afraid to push the envelope by making Waternoose THAT villain, hence his real motive and actions remain hidden for much of the movie, while all the negativity is focused on Randall, the "Reptiles are Loathsome" character, since it was figured that no one would like him, anyway.

Here is a link to an interview with two Circle 7 writers, btw, which gives a condensed version of the stormy relationship between Pixar and Disney and tells WHY Pixar could not have made sequels of their own movies up until now, and it includes some storyboards for the MI sequel, Lost in Scaradise, but no mention of Randall. It doesn't say that Boo was grown into a teenager, though, and in fact I've never read that anywhere that sounded "official", only that Mike and Sulley go to visit her on her birthday and find that she's moved away, so now they have to find her.
Circle 7 Studiosanimatedviews.com/2012/bob-hilgenberg-and-rob-muir-on-the-rise-and-fall-of-disneys-circle-7-animation/


By the way, did the TVTropes entry include any citations, as to the source of that information about Randall's role in the now-defunct Circle 7 sequel? You know that anyone can post whatever they like in that section, and that in general TVTropes is NOT kind to Randall at all, and still portrays him very negatively in their entry on MU. I did a Google search and I couldn't find anything verifying Randall even being in the sequel that was planned, other than what I had been told by a then-Disney writer/animator who was leaving to join Circle 7. I would love to find some confirmation that this is legit, even if it's not going to be made into a sequel anymore.

pitbulllady

Wow I never knew any of that happened, then again I was like 6 or 7 when the movie came out XD I remember loving it as a kid and I watched Monsters and Shrek all the time lol. I hope it comes out in 2017, that would be neat. MU was cool since I'm a freshmen in college now, but I kinda wanted a sequel more.

[pitbulllady]

I did find the TVTropes.org entry, and while it did mention part of the plot, i.e., Sulley and Mike going to give Boo a birthday present and finding out that she'd moved, then Sulley trying to find her while Mike tries to get back home, the entry mentioned absolutely nothing of the fact that this was a Circle 7 script, NOT a Pixar script. It wasn't scrapped due to "James Coburn's untimely death" or "budgetary issues", either, as the entry claims, but to Circle 7 being disbanded after its creator, Michael Eisner, was ousted from Disney and Pixar merged with Disney, thus regaining the rights to their characters and franchises, making Circle 7 unnecessary. That's why I'd really like to see some citation as to the source of that information, especially with regards to Randall's alleged role in that sequel script.

pitbulllady

[CrazyDiamond]

Slightly off topic, but nevertheless important:

Assuming that those screenwriters wrote the script while employed by Disney (or its Circle 7 subsidiary), the script is a so-called "work made for hire", meaning that Disney owns it and can do with it whatever they see fit. If it never gets made into a movie, it will be because of Pixar's hubris, not legal issues. Just my two cents...

[pitbulllady]

Sept 14, 2013 13:28:53 GMT -5 CrazyDiamond said:

Slightly off topic, but nevertheless important:

Assuming that those screenwriters wrote the script while employed by Disney (or its Circle 7 subsidiary), the script is a so-called "work made for hire", meaning that Disney owns it and can do with it whatever they see fit. If it never gets made into a movie, it will be because of Pixar's hubris, not legal issues. Just my two cents...

"Pixar's hubris" is no doubt the Big Issue. The Lost in Scaradise script could be a thorn in their side, given that Circle 7 was created in no small part for Eisner to thumb his nose at Pixar and at Jobs. It is a shame, because I've heard nothing but positive things about this script, although the statement from Winfield and now, this entry in TvTropes.org, are the only things that mentioned Randall and his role specifically. I really wish that I could find some citation for the latter, a source as to where that information came from, to know that the part about Randall's role wasn't just something tossed in there by a fan, although I have to admit it sounds legit and does "jive" with what Mr. Winfield told me, that fans of all three monster main characters-Sulley, Mike AND Randall-would be "pleased with the results" of Circle 7's writers. It would be nice if Pixar would at least take a look at the script, and create an adaptation OF it, since they technically ARE merged with Disney Feature Animation and John Lasseter is over both, so it's really his call. It would be too bad if the Pixar folks do indeed take that attitude that since they didn't write it, it's not worth making into a movie, but I'm afraid that this is indeed the attitude they're taking. I guess time will tell.

One thing that I DID find especially intriguing about the TvTropes entry, though, is that it specifically states that " They then get trapped in the human world, with Sully wanting to find Boo and Mike wanting to find a way home, teaming up with Randall in order to do so. " This is so ironic, in that it shows a partnership between MIKE AND RANDALL, to get back to the Monster World, and this was written probably long before MU was even an idea in anyone's head, long before Pixar's writers came up with the concept of Mike and Randall at least having had a good working partnership, which we see in MU when they're studying together, and even a rather one-sided friendship at some point.

pitbulllady

[CrazyDiamond]

Well, you can't really shield yourself from inspiration, so I guess the MU team had Circle7's script in the backs of their minds even if they had tried to suppress it.
Anyway, Pixar seems to be in some sort of turmoil lately, with many good directors being replaced and subsequently leaving, that anything seems possible right now...

[pitbulllady]

Sept 14, 2013 19:05:22 GMT -5 CrazyDiamond said:

Well, you can't really shield yourself from inspiration, so I guess the MU team had Circle7's script in the backs of their minds even if they had tried to suppress it.
Anyway, Pixar seems to be in some sort of turmoil lately, with many good directors being replaced and subsequently leaving, that anything seems possible right now...

Really? I hadn't heard about that! Is Scanlon one of the directors who is leaving, or has anyone said? I hope not, since I really feel like he's one of the best bets to continue Randall's story and give him that "heel-face turn" that the Circle 7 writers allegedly had in mind for him. I really would love to see that script made into a movie, though, because it sounds like exactly what most of us here want to see happen, for Randall, Mike, Sulley and Boo, and I would love for the two main script writers, Bob Hilgenberg and Rob Muir, get credit for it, and not see their work simply languish, although I know that sort of thing happens all the time in world of tv and film. If the script is as good as those who've seen it say it is, it deserves a new life.

pitbulllady

[CrazyDiamond]

No, it isn't Scanlon. It's Bob Peterson, Pixar's long-time employee, Up co-director and the voice of Roz of CDA...

[pitbulllady]

Sept 15, 2013 9:55:59 GMT -5 CrazyDiamond said:

No, it isn't Scanlon. It's Bob Peterson, Pixar's long-time employee, Up co-director and the voice of Roz of CDA...

Wow, I didn't know he was leaving! I guess this means no more Roz, then. Oh, well, now that her CDA cover has been blown they'll need a new operative at MI, anyway.

pitbulllady

[CrazyDiamond]

Well, he hasn't technically left yet, but his upcoming movie, The Good Dinosaur, had been taken away from him last month and he later removed all mentions of Pixar from his Twitter profile. So it is safe to assume that he will remain at Pixar until The Good Dinosaur is finished and will leave then. It's kinda sad, really.

[pitbulllady]

Sept 15, 2013 14:40:11 GMT -5 creativegirl31 said:

I really do hope that Pixar does give Randall a chance to have that "Heel Face Turn"!

And if that TV Tropes article holds any water, then the Mike and Randall team up is SO freaking hilarious in hindsight.
Lmao

Even if Boo wasnt a "Teenager" persay, it DOES indeed confirm that she would have been older and able to talk at the very least since the movie takes place on her Birthday!

And just HOW exactly would Sulley have known when Boo's Birthday was if she could barely speak as a toddler? I highly doubt that Sulley would have just simply asked her parents. -__-

So unless Sulley has just been spying on her (Ew. Creepy -.-), Boo would've had to have been old enough to SPEAK in order to for Sulley to logically know this information.

Though Sulley COULD just be celebrating the anniversary of when he first met Boo but from all the sources, I've seen, that's unlikely.

Also if they DO make an adaptation of that alleged sequel then I hope that Randall not only recondiles with Mike, but also becomes on better terms with Sulley and Boo as well.

Im really curious to know how they would forgive him...

Having Mike forgive Randall would take some time but it would probably be somewhat easy.

Maybe Boo as well since I dont think she would remeber much....

But having Sulley forgive him.....
That would take a LOT of time ..

When Sulley reunites with Boo at the end of MI, she would have been three, since according to the stock report data on his clipboard, that would have been one year after the events of the movie, and a three year old can talk quite well. She would have known by this time when her birthday was, and if not then, I'm sure that Sulley kept seeing her on a fairly regular basis, watching her grow. There were probably some stretches of time-weeks, perhaps months-during which he would not have been able to get to see her, due to his own work schedule, perhaps, and it could have been during that time that she and her family moved away. OR, maybe they DIDN'T move at all, and Sulley and Mike just jumped to that conclusion after seeing that old lady in Boo's bed, when that might have been a visiting grandmother and Boo could have been sleeping in another room or been on a sleepover at a friend's house or something. The bed was the same, that Carolina "rice planters" style bed that she had in MI, complete with the traditional Charleston pineapple bedposts, and it would be odd for a family to move way and leave all their furniture unless they were just renting that big house, fully furnished.

I'm actually pondering whether or not to try to find the email of one of the writers and try to correspond with him, but I'm wondering if that wouldn't be tackless, to just email and ask about whether Randall was in that now-abandoned script and if so, what they'd planned for him. I mean, I'm not sure how much they'd want to discuss that project, if it has indeed been "scrapped", since I think I'd probably be rather sensitive about it if it had been MY project, all of MY hard work, and I knew that it would probably never see the light of day. What do y'all think-try to contact those writers, or not?

As for either Mike and Sulley forgiving Randall, and vice versa, I really believe that the catalyst there, the "glue" that will pull them together and hold them, is going to be BOO herself, whatever age she happens to be.  Boo will have no memory of Randall whatsoever if she's over four years of age, since human children's brains, with VERY rare exceptions, "re-wire" themselves starting at around the age of four, and all memories formed prior to that which are not being constantly reinforced,like still seeing a person that they met when younger on a regular basis or learning a particular skill, so-called "muscle memories", are lost forever.  Unless Randall has actually been present and involved in her life all this time(now wouldn't THAT be ironic?), she wouldn't know him, only that he was a monster, like Mike and Sulley.  Randall PROBABLY would not know her, either.  I doubt he even knew her name when he was her Scarer, and she would have changed enough in the meantime that unless he has been around her on a regular basis, he would not recognize her if several years have passed since he last saw her as a two-year-old, especially given the turmoil he'd have been through in the meantime, just trying to survive.  She'd be just another human kid to him.

pitbulllady

[pitbulllady]

I don't think that Randall would remember Boo, or at least recognize her. He'd remember her as a two-year-old, maybe, depending on how bad his gray matter got scrambled, but I doubt he knew her real name, and if he saw her again years later, without being told specifically that's who she was, he'd have no clue. I fail to recognize students I taught just a few years ago when I see them in stores, etc., because they change so much over just a few years, and I would have had a LOT more contact with those kids than Randall would have had with any of his Scare assignments. They know ME, because I have not changed that much, appearance-wise, but often those kids will have gone from being some little pudgy kid to a tall, lanky teenager in just a few years, it seems, with a deep voice and all, lol! And if Mike and Sulley have told Boo about Randall, those would not be real memories, but false memories, planted there in her mind by someone else, but I really don't think they'd keep bringing him up.

I'd like to hear from some of the other people here to get as many opinions as possible as to whether it's a good idea to contact the writer(s). I really want to know if that information on TvTropes.org is true, regarding the script. I'm skeptical, to be honest, because 99.99999% of what is posted about Randall on that site is absolute manure, extremely biased against him, written by people who hate him and hate US.

pitbulllady

[pitbulllady]

Sept 16, 2013 11:48:42 GMT -5 creativegirl31 said:

Sept 15, 2013 20:02:22 GMT -5 pitbulllady said:

I don't think that Randall would remember Boo, or at least recognize her. He'd remember her as a two-year-old, maybe, depending on how bad his gray matter got scrambled, but I doubt he knew her real name, and if he saw her again years later, without being told specifically that's who she was, he'd have no clue. I fail to recognize students I taught just a few years ago when I see them in stores, etc., because they change so much over just a few years, and I would have had a LOT more contact with those kids than Randall would have had with any of his Scare assignments. They know ME, because I have not changed that much, appearance-wise, but often those kids will have gone from being some little pudgy kid to a tall, lanky teenager in just a few years, it seems, with a deep voice and all, lol! And if Mike and Sulley have told Boo about Randall, those would not be real memories, but false memories, planted there in her mind by someone else, but I really don't think they'd keep bringing him up.

I'd like to hear from some of the other people here to get as many opinions as possible as to whether it's a good idea to contact the writer(s). I really want to know if that information on TvTropes.org is true, regarding the script. I'm skeptical, to be honest, because 99.99999% of what is posted about Randall on that site is absolute manure, extremely biased against him, written by people who hate him and hate US.

pitbulllady

Just out of curiousity, how exactly are you able to get in contact with the writers?

They have a blog that is linked to Jim Hill Media's blog. Jim Hill is one of the people who has seen the entire script and was so appreciative of it, stating that it was as good as, maybe better, than the original MI movie. He's no fan of John Lasseter, though, so he was especially ticked off that Pixar chose to make MU, a movie written by their own people, rather than considering this one.

pitbulllady