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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 22, 2014 20:34:59 GMT -5
*chuckles* If anybody's watched the comedy "Official Spoiler Rules", one year is genuinely regarded as minimum wait-time for spoilers heheh. At least as far as tv series are concerned heh.
That said, spoilers ahead!
Yes, PBL, Snape does die. But it's not one of those "don't let me go" or "take my hand" kind of deaths. Voldemort's snake uhh...Nagni or...something like that...bites him rather ruthlessly (as far as the film goes, though that's behind foggy glass). While this isn't technically fatal (as Snape heals Draco in an earlier (same?) film when Harry accidentally uses a fatal slashing spell on him), the snake's poison supposedly is what does him in.
I do admit the "Redemption Equals Death" trope is...rather sad. It's like saying you can't turn good without dying. That's literally the definition.
As far as Randall is concerned, though, don't think Pixar will go down that route. It's just...not something to go for, especially given their right direction in MU for him. I mean morally it wouldn't be right, but just in plain circumstance, Pixar wouldn't do something like that. There better in that regard to work out that sorta "happy ending" thing. Sure, Randall may not be TOTALLY happy at the end...but he'll get better.
Heck, even early Disney got it right, in a DIRECT TO VIDEO sequel...by way of Iago. Sure, it REALLY DID look like he might have died at the end there...but nah. As the old guide of mine said "You'd be surprised what you can live through."
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 24, 2014 0:50:45 GMT -5
Uh... yeah. Yes, Snape does die... but it's not in the traditional sense. Just wanted to add something that the last responder didn't (the snake's name is Nagini, by the way). Shortly afterwards (that is, after Snape's death), we (and Harry) are treated to a monumental revelation sequence (titled in the book as 'The Prince's Tale') that lasts about 6-7 minutes, showing Snape's whole lifestory, from childhood to adulthood, where we actually get to KNOW him for the very first time. There are nostalgic flashbacks, emotional music, and crucial pieces of information regarding Harry's past that encompass the entire series. There's so much revealed about Snape, it's almost easy to forget that he died, which actually sort of eases the emotional blow of any absence one would assume his death would entail, which is EXTREMELY rare.
Granted: Rowling PLANNED the revelation clear back when she wrote the very first book. 'The Prince's Tale' is actually more than just a revelation, it represents Rowling's entire AGENDA for the Harry Potter series as a whole. As for Randall, his story is obviously more down to Earth and relatable for most people, which is perfectly understandable. It is clear to me that the key to Randall gaining a new appreciation of things is for him (AND Mike and Sulley) to realize that Randall's chameleon abilities, to turn invisible and stuff, is what makes him unique.
One last comment: What was said above about Iago is true, and it plays out in Aladdin: The Return of Jafar. No, he doesn't die, but he DOES get badly injured in his heroic act. He is then taken in by his new friends, where his wounds are bandaged and he is given a sickbed to recuperate (which he does, as he appears in the third film 'Aladdin and the King of Thieves', completely healthy and all).
I cannot express in words how much I would HATE for Randall's redemption to involve 'dying a hero'. Already saw that with Harry Osborne from Spider-Man 3, and James Norrington from Pirates of the Carribbean: At World's End. It just DOESN'T have to happen, and while my own personal hope and preference is simply that the Monster World would come under such great threat that Randall's unique abilities could save all of Monstropolis (I'm still writing a private thesis on Randall's character throughout the Monsters films to support this view), which would indeed bring him through 'unscathed'....
...I suppose that Iago comment opens up a plausible THIRD alternative: If in the process of redeeming Randall once and for all, he would HAVE to 'pay' some sort of mortal price, it is POSSIBLE he could be physically injured during his final, heroic act, and could be taken to Monster Hospital (yeah, we've never seen one before, I know), to recover from his wounds. Should that be the case, Mike and Sulley could visit Randall in his hospital room to thank him for saving their lives, which if done right, could be touching.
I will admit that it's hard for me to imagine Randall Boggs actually being hospitalized, per se (i.e. wearing a hospital gown and being on an I.V., as other movies might show), but even so, given where Randall is now - banished in a foreign world where hillbillies mistake him for a gator and beat him mercilessly (I have NO doubt in my mind that Randall got out of that trailer as soon as he could) - I'm sure being injured and recuperating in a hospital bed wouldn't bother Randall at all. At LEAST he would be safe and sound, and a part of the Monster World once more... just as long as we could see him well and back on his feet again by the last scene.
I personally don't want Randall's redemption to demand that he get injured or hospitalized in order to reach his state of grace, but I openly confess that I would much, MUCH rather see that than see Randall die a hero, or not be redeemed at all. If, for some reason, Randall Boggs HAS to assume the classic cartoonish 'wounded hero' look; with one of his arms in a sling, a couple of bandages on his body, an 'x' bandage on his cheek, and a couple of tied bandages around his tail, in order for general audiences to buy into him having made a permanent commitment to the side of good, I guess I could live with that.
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 24, 2014 13:58:11 GMT -5
Are you aware of the Circle 7 Studios planned sequel to Mi, RandallSnape7? I'm sure that you probably are, but in any case it did present a scenario where Randall becomes the hero and saves everyone else from Waternoose. I don't know if it involved him being injured or even killed, though, and Circle 7, a "pet" project of Eisner's, was disbanded once Eisner left his CEO post at Disney, as the studio had been created solely to create direct-to-DVD sequels of Pixar's movies. To the surprise of everyone who got to see the first script out of that studio, for MI2, though, the script was actually very good, and in Jim Hill's opinion, it was better than the original. As for Randall "paying a mortal price" in the form of injuries, suffice it to say he's done THAT already. Logically there's no way he escaped injury, and possibly serious, life-changing injury, when he was attacked in that trailer with a shovel. We SEE him knocked out, and the woman continues striking him, so yeah, there would have been some nasty injuries involved and it would have been miraculous for him to have survived that. His survival isn't just compromised by the fact that she was using a shovel, an instrument capable of inflicting horrific injuries(which I've seen first-hand on both humans and animals of various species), but on the fact that those were NOT "HILLBILLIES". I cannot emphasize that enough. Many people hear a vaguely Southern accent and automatically think "hillbilly" because Hollywood had fostered that particular Big Lie for so long, that all Southerners are "hillbillies". Hillbillies live in the Appalachian and Ozark Mountains; that is where the "HILL" part comes in. They speak with a slightly Scottish "brogue", because they are descendants of Scotch-Irish settlers who, for so long, were isolated from the rest of the people and therefore kept much of their original accent their ancestors had brought over from the British Isle. There are hillbillies in places like Pennsylvania and Indiana, which aren't Southern states at all. The people in the trailer which attacked Randall were in LOUISIANA, southern Louisiana bayou country, as can be seen if you pay attention to the backdrop of moss-draped cypress trees and cattails, indicating a Gulf Coastal marsh area, not mountains. That kid had a Cajun accent that was as different from a hillbilly dialect as a chunk of granite is from a cotton ball; the woman sounded more like the accents around places like Hammond, LA, north of Lake Pontchartrain. That is significant because in Louisiana, people EAT alligators. Alligators are a valuable commodity, dead, that is. Alligator meat is a staple of many diets, can be purchased in any supermarket, or in any restaurant. Finding a "gator" in one's house would be like having free pizza, steak, and chicken delivered right to your door, especially for a poor family. Those people didn't want to simply get rid of Randall, get him out of their home(which probably was one of those ubiquitous "fish/hunt camps" that EVERYONE in southern Louisiana has, as a base for hunting and fishing, which nearly everyone does); they wanted to EAT HIM. That is what makes his survival still so much in doubt, because they aren't just going to knock him unconscious and drag him outside and leave him there, just to get him out of their trailer. They're going to drag him outside, slit his throat, skin him and butcher him like a pig unless by some miracle he is saved, that someone or something comes along at that last second to stop that from happening, or the humans have a sudden revelation that he is NOT an animal, that he's not a "gator" to be skinned and eaten.
pitbulllady
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 24, 2014 16:10:24 GMT -5
That certainly sounds brutal and inhumane, and no, I didn't know that. By the way, I ONLY used the name 'hillbillies' because I read another site use the same term to describe the humans in the trailer. I personally didn't know WHAT to call them, so... I did NOT mean anything by it. Thanks for the short lesson, it was educational.
However, if in fact, 'Monsters Inc.' uses what I call the 'George of the Jungle' rule of storytelling (a man falls off a bridge down into a ravine, and the narrator says "Not to worry! No one dies in this story..... they just get really big boo-boos! What did I tell you?", then it's safe to assume that Randall ABSOLUTELY is not dead.
As for saving Randall from such a horrific fate 'at the last minute', I say pull out a gavel, organize the debate committee, and lay all the cards out on the table! (LOL) Let's..... FIGURE IT OUT!
Randall can turn INVISIBLE, can he not? Wouldn't THAT give him plenty of time to escape the trailer and run away as fast as he can? As for Mike Wazowski having to locate him when he repieces the door together (like he did with Boo, which would be mandatory if Randall is to come back in the story), that's his problem.
This situation sounds very slim and dire, I'll say that, but THAT is what enthralls me so. As the saying goes: Desperate situations call for desperate actions. I'm starting to think that the only way Mike and Sulley would even consider fetching Randall would be if someone from the Human World (like some punk teenagers) infiltrated Monsters Inc. and changed EVERYTHING in Monstropolis (a la Pottersville from "It's A Wonderful Life", or Biff Tannen's Hill Valley, Alternate 1985 from Back to the Future Part II, or Jack Frost's 'North Pole Resort' in The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause), NOT that it would involve time-travel, mind you. I will stress again, time-travel is not what I was thinking AT ALL.
My reason for thinking along such lines is that when a movie does this, it is usually a drastic measure used to shake the moral center of the protagonist, and usually teach them a lesson in appreciation. It is obvious to me that something VERY drastic like this will indeed have to happen in order for Randall to come back into the story, and come out a shining hero. If it's teens, they probably wouldn't be scared of any of the monsters, but... their ONE weakness could be that they are scared of chameleons (not that they would know Randall, just ANY Chameleon, like from school science or something), which would act like Kryptonite to Superman. If Mike got wind of such info, I have no doubt that due to their past ties at college, that would indeed prompt him to go and fetch Randall... even if Sulley would refuse to accompany him.
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 24, 2014 16:24:48 GMT -5
Um, sorry! Don't know how my post ended up on the page twice. I was just trying to make a grammar correction on one of the words, and I must have hit a wrong button. Sorry...
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 24, 2014 20:39:23 GMT -5
Yes, have seen all the films, and got the info heh. I just cleared up what was already said heh.
Something to be said from Snape's death, also, is that Harry finally gets something that most antagonists (as Snape is "sorta" one, just in portrayal, we know he's not) don't get to show...understanding. Thanks to Snape's memories, he understands what was going on, what his motivations have been and, from what I gather...shows Snape really DID care for Harry despite his actions. Yes, Harry reminded him a LOT of James, who he didn't like himself...but he also reminded him of Lily, his mother, the woman he loved. I believe the "you have her eyes" bit was in there somewhere. So regardless of Snape's antagonistic portrayal, he knew Harry was a part of Lily that lived on and he endeavored to try and protect him, and it got to the point he'd even give his life for it.
I'm not sure...but I think that the Aladdin TV series happens between RoJ and KoT...as Iago had been with Aladdin for quite some time before heading off with dear old dad...and later...umm...well yeah.
Harry and Peter teaming up...have to admit, quite good. James? Yeah...his death wasn't...as heroic...I mean it was, it just seemed like the wrong time or something. I mean he gets killed by the dad of the guy that the woman he was saving loved...not to mention said-killer was practically immortal. Sure, good show dear boy but...
One thing to remember though...Randall IS already quite injured. While he'd have to get away from that trailer (if he hadn't, heroes are killers, no argument there)...he WOULDN'T have gotten away unscathed. there would be repercussions.
As for his amazing talent to blend...that...maybe be affected. Considering he certainly got cut up from his assault and got his head ringing like...well can't describe it...jack-hammer maybe? Anyway...physical injury mixed with immense loss of concentration may make his talent now-difficult-or-glitchy (yes, I've compounded ideas for years). Would it get him OUT of the situation? Maybe so...but as said about, it might be a complication later. Like if he blended, parts of him would still show because of his injuries, or he can't concentrate as well to make it work correctly.
Of course it's also been movie-wise a year since the incident at MI. While Laugh Energy is certainly NOT the leading source, it is growing...they didn't lead on that Randall was back by that time. Which means he'd be at least a year in the human world...which isn't overly a good thing for a monster...
(Also, don't worry about the double post, fixed that. One with correction(s) is left)
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 24, 2014 23:09:05 GMT -5
Yep, what RB said. Randall's ability to camouflage would be severely hindered by his injuries. He'd be bleeding profusely, and since only his skin can change color/pattern, that alone would make him easy to find, just by following the blood trail, something Cajuns are very good at, being that many are hunters and are used to tracking wounded game through a swamp. We actually SEE Randall knocked unconscious, so he's not going to be able to "blend" while he's out cold, and that is assuming that he was ONLY unconscious, and not dead of massive head injury and subdural hemorrhage or a cervical vertebral fracture/dislocation. Like I said, though, those people intended to eat him, so unless SOMETHING happened, nothing short of a miraculous something, he'd be done, being unable to run and unable to fight back. They'd just finish him off, skin him and butcher him.
MI did not seem to follow that "George of the Jungle" rule, or that "Loony Toons" rule, where characters never can really get hurt, let alone killed. Mike specifically says that Randall "is trying to kill us" when explaining to Celia Mae what is going on, and there is that constant reminder that "just one touch" from a human child "can KILL". They are not immortal or immune from injury. That is the impression with all of Pixar's movies-their characters can DIE, or be hurt, just as live-action characters played by human actors can.
pitbulllady
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 25, 2014 4:09:48 GMT -5
'Miraculous somethings'..... VERY intriguing. I am going to make a little phone call.....
Phone answering machine (LOL)!!!
Good evening, Randallsnape. You have reached Boggs' Board. Your call is important to us.
If you would like info on Monsters University, and Monsters Inc., please press '1'.
For discussions about Mike Wazowski and James P. Sullivan, please press '2'.
If you wish to present a case for Randall Boggs' character redemption, please press '3'.
'3' <BEEP> Thank you.
Randall is currently out of commission, due to a beating in a trailer.
For discussions regarding a permanently maimed Randall returning to the franchise, please press '1'.
To speak to the 'Miraculous Somethings' department for drastic and complete 1 in 1,000,000 recoveries in the interests of future appearances for characters, please press '2'.
'2' <BEEP> Thank you.
<Dial tone>
Randallsnape: Yes, pitbulllady, I presume? I would like to make a reservation for the 'Miraculous Somethings' department. I have a case for one Boggs, Randall (a.k.a. Randy) of Monstropolis.
Species: Monster/Chameleon
Gender: Male
Age: Um... Young Adult
Requesting permission to browse the History of Miraculous Somethings Archives: Sub Level 2, Room A4... it's a matter of life and death. Any info citing previous miraculous recoveries to characters throughout movies of a similar genre would be very much appreciated, and will be of useful aid in the case I wish to pursue. Thank you. LOL!!!!
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 25, 2014 13:31:23 GMT -5
'Miraculous somethings'..... VERY intriguing. I am going to make a little phone call.....
Phone answering machine (LOL)!!!
Good evening, Randallsnape. You have reached Boggs' Board. Your call is important to us.
If you would like info on Monsters University, and Monsters Inc., please press '1'.
For discussions about Mike Wazowski and James P. Sullivan, please press '2'.
If you wish to present a case for Randall Boggs' character redemption, please press '3'.
'3' <BEEP> Thank you.
Randall is currently out of commission, due to a beating in a trailer.
For discussions regarding a permanently maimed Randall returning to the franchise, please press '1'.
To speak to the 'Miraculous Somethings' department for drastic and complete 1 in 1,000,000 recoveries in the interests of future appearances for characters, please press '2'.
'2' <BEEP> Thank you.
<Dial tone>
Randallsnape: Yes, pitbulllady, I presume? I would like to make a reservation for the 'Miraculous Somethings' department. I have a case for one Boggs, Randall (a.k.a. Randy) of Monstropolis.
Species: Monster/Chameleon
Gender: Male
Age: Um... Young Adult
Requesting permission to browse the History of Miraculous Somethings Archives: Sub Level 2, Room A4... it's a matter of life and death. Any info citing previous miraculous recoveries to characters throughout movies of a similar genre would be very much appreciated, and will be of useful aid in the case I wish to pursue. Thank you. LOL!!!!
LOL, I LOVE IT! You and I can both attest that there really is a "Miraculous Something Dept." and it does really work, not always when we want it to or when we expect it to or HOW we except it to, but it does work, doesn't it? pitbulllady |
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