CrazyDiamond
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
I'm shining!
Posts: 270
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Post by CrazyDiamond on Aug 9, 2013 18:07:16 GMT -5
Mike was unhurt. Therefore, Randall must have been unhurt. The movie fluctuates when it comes to slapstick elements. When Randall hit Sulley with the scream canister, Sulley lost consciousness, and it wasn't the classic "funny" birds-and-stars cartoony loss of consciousness. It wasn't funny at all. Similarly, Randall lost consciousness when he was punched by Sulley, and it wasn't really funny either. So no, the slapstick card doesn't work well here.
Please, do not mix science and debates. They have different rules. Science is about facts and strict formal logic, while debates aren't. Science is about defending hypotheses/theories, while debates are about defending opinions.
I don't know if Randall got kicked out of ROR, but I believe he was because it fits Johnny's narrative story arc well. Similarly, I don't know if Randall died in the trailer, but I refuse to believe he did because it would ruin any future Pixar movie for me, as out of my three favourite characters, my most favourite would be dead, murdered by the remaining two. That's not the closure I am looking for in an animated movie. But these are my opinions and beliefs, and I do not intend to shove them down anyone's throat.
Finally, in my humble opinion, this debate is going nowhere. We don't see Randall getting kicked out of ROR after the Games, but neither do we see him staying. We don't see him lying dead on the trailer floor, but neither do we see him alive afterwards. So let's agree to disagree and abandon this before it turns to some drama.
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Post by mintygreen on Aug 9, 2013 20:04:22 GMT -5
I think a lot of that is because most people don't really read between the lines and notice the more subliminal things in a movie. They notice the stuff that is right in their faces and don't think outside the box about it. Especially if they don't really care about Randall and therefore are even LESS likely to notice subliminal things relating to his character. Especially if some of these people already had a preconceived notion that Randall "is bad" so they would have been more likely to see things he did in MU as most likely "bad" instead of "good" or something else. They're free to have their opinion of course but yeah, it's not how I see things. Also it does seem like maybe Johnny is more appealing to more people than Randall is....so people just aren't blaming him as much. Although, I do think Johnny has his own issues. One of my friends is friends with the son of a really well known family in our city and it does feel like those people are expected to live up to certain expectations and they're always in the spotlight and if they fail at something it will be noticed more by people than if someone else fails at something. And that does suck. Johnny DEFINITELY has issues, to put it mildly, and money or no money, I would not want to be in his place for exactly the reason you described. Johnny honestly does NOT know any better because he's never had a real role model to show him any differently, and he basically treats others just as his own father no doubt treats him. If they succeed and their success helps HIM directly hold up those lofty standards that have been imposed on him, he treats them well, but if they FAIL, and especially if in doing so make HIM look bad...well, we saw how he treated Randall in that instance, didn't we? It does really, really bother me, as a teacher especially, that most younger people CAN'T, as you said, "read between the lines" and can only see what is very, very obvious, whether it's watching a movie or tv series or reading something. They completely miss out on deeper concepts like themes and internal struggles that characters are going through. It's sad and it's scary, honestly, that people are losing the ability, for the most part, to utilize those higher-level thinking/processing skills. The fact that most people would assume that Johnny found Randall to be a "slimy" individual based on the fact that Randall actually follows JOHNNY'S orders, though, takes the lack of higher-order thinking skills to a whole new low. pitbulllady Yeah, also everyone else in Johnny's family has been a "high achiever" and if then you end up being the only one in the family who drops out of college or doesn't get as good grades or something, it's just more of a negative feeling you get. I don't imagine that Mike's parents were scarers, most likely no one he's even related to is a scarer. So he's the first one in his family to take that on, I assume. Of course he wants to succeed like everyone else but it also means that if he fails at it, it's not like his family members are going to look down on him for it because I highly doubt any of them were ever scarers. I get held to higher expectations in my family than my boyfriend does in his family and it sucks sometimes. There's also more pressure sometimes if you are the only child or if you are the oldest child. I'm the oldest kid in my family and I have a sister who's 3 years younger than me and she's always had better grades than me. My sister was on the honor's list in high school and the dean's honor list in university. Now she's doing her PhD. She would also get first place in track and field events so she wasn't just smart but athletic too. She's also very beautiful looking. I often hear my mother talking about my sister to people on the phone, saying all these great things about her. I never hear my mom talk about me that way. So I kind of know how that feels. I'm not envious of my sister though or anything. we have a really good relationship. And it's not her fault that she seems to be the favourite child. It's not scary...or sad. It's "evolution" on the part of humanity. Humans become so full of themselves and believe that things are all on the "Layer 1" that they refuse to dig any deeper. They become less inclined to look, more lazy, more unaccustomed to feeling anything other than their own satisfaction. Sounds like DEVOLUTION doesn't? I've said before, if anybody listens...these people are entitled to their own opinion...even if they're wrong. If your efforts are to get them to understand things, for the most part, it's rarely becoming something that will happen. Mentioning something such as this proves that their decision is, indeed, biased. They can have it, they're just completely wrong. But that IS scary! That's the future of our species here, that has lost the ability to reason logically and analyze and evaluate information in a rational way. There's a difference in having an opinion and getting facts wrong. If I say, "I hate pepperoni pizza", that's my opinion. If I say, "I hate pepperoni pizza because pepperoni pizza is made with dog poo", then I've got the facts wrong. It makes no logical or rational sense for someone to actually claim that Johnny was suspicious of Randall and thought of Randall as a bad person BECAUSE Randall OBEYED Johnny's orders to do things which were bad when JOHNNY was the one who came up with those plans in the first place. Now, I can see that IF Randall had been the one who was calling the shots, giving orders, instead of the other way around, but clearly that was NOT the case. And what about all the other members of ROR, all of whom played just as big a role as Randall in pulling off that prank on the OK's, OR the other fraternities and sororities, all of which were in on the prank, too, and all of which found it funny to say the least. It was the PNK's who actually invited the OK's to that party in the first place, and everyone was in on it, even if they didn't know specifically what Johnny was up to, but it all boils down to HIM being the mastermind behind the whole thing, so it is completely illogical that he, of all monsters, would find anyone "slimy" and untrustworthy because they went along with HIM. pitbulllady Yes sometimes people have an opinion that is quite clearly wrong...although they are still entitled to have that opinion. We can have a rational discussion with them to try to change their minds but they're still entitled to believe something else. I mean there are people who even deny that the Holocaust happened. It's illegal to deny it in Germany(and maybe some other places too I'm not sure) but I think most places people are allowed to deny it if they want to. It seems crazy that anyone would believe it never happened but some people are like that.
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Post by Theophilus Hatta on Aug 9, 2013 20:30:50 GMT -5
Monsters Inc was overall a comedy with serious notes. And True. But there is the context of the scenes to consider. When Randall hit Sulley, it was for drama. Check out the lighting, the music and the mood of the scene. It wasn't being played for comedy, it was being played straight. And even though Sulley was hurt, he recovered within the scene. When Randall was getting wailed on, it was more humorous. The staging was flat, the music was sillier, the colours brighter... it was classic slapstick setup. So it doesn't make sense they they intended Randall to be beat to death with a shovel in the scene, just amusingly injured. Sorry, that metaphor got a little mixed now that I reread it. What I meant was I need evidence to defend a theory, even it's a theory formed by opinion. When the opinion's support (in the form of a quote by the creator or actor or something in the film) is not there to a degree I can say "yes, that's there, ok it works for me", then I discard that opinion and theory. In this case, I am regarding PBL's opinion that Randy got kicked out as a theory (and my opinion that Randy wasn't kicked out as an alternate theory), offering movie-based support.. she has some and I has some, and thus the debate is formed. This topic started off with me talking about how canon canon things are, but the topic seems to have drifted... quite far now. There is a thread on Randall's fate and possible injuries on this board already (as pointed out earlier. And on my thread about MU, I'd be happy to continue the debate on ROR. But yeah, this isn't really the thread for it. On a sidenote, I always pictured Randall Boggs being picked up by the "Monsters VS Aliens" characters and absorbed into the team after he escaped the trailer. An unlikely future, considering they are different studios, but fun to think about.
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