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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 20, 2013 13:44:54 GMT -5
Seems a lot of people who have seen MU already were either disappointed that Randall does not undergo a crying, falling-on-the-ground, wrist-slashing emo fit, OR they felt that him joining ROR and going along with Johnny's wishes were proof that he either "became a p****" or always WAS one, that he was more interested in partying while Mike studied and deserves no sympathy for what happens to him in the Scare Games. They fail to see how that is "tragic" or how it would lead to him behaving badly and think that Mike was better off for them not being friends anymore. One said that he "looked confident" during the Scare Games so that was "proof" of him having become an "A-hole" and not being so nervous and insecure after all. Looks like most folks can only still see the very visible tip of that proverbial "iceberg" and haven't bothered to look at what's beneath it, and that MU might just create a whole lot more Randall haters than Randall fans pitbulllady
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Post by Antanas on Jun 20, 2013 17:03:49 GMT -5
Well, the only posts on tumblr I've seen like this (as of yet, anyway) were the two you reblogged. Of these posts, the first poster seemed to be incorrigibly anti-Randall, and I doubt anything would've changed their opinion. The other poster was of the "became a p****" opinion...well, I GUESS that's progress...at least people with that opinion understand that he wasn't always the way he was, even though I don't agree with the idea that he "became a p****". Hopefully, most people will pick up on how awkward and nervous Randy was in ROR...it seems pretty obvious to me, even from the GIFs alone.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 20, 2013 17:30:08 GMT -5
Well, the only posts on tumblr I've seen like this (as of yet, anyway) were the two you reblogged. Of these posts, the first poster seemed to be incorrigibly anti-Randall, and I doubt anything would've changed their opinion. The other poster was of the "became a p****" opinion...well, I GUESS that's progress...at least people with that opinion understand that he wasn't always the way he was, even though I don't agree with the idea that he "became a p****". Hopefully, most people will pick up on how awkward and nervous Randy was in ROR...it seems pretty obvious to me, even from the GIFs alone. Yeah, I know. I'm not sure how anyone can look at his body language and say, "wow, he sure looks full of confidence there". Yeah, at some point, he would have to have "bit the bullet" and put on a game face and did what he had to do, which was successfully compete. Randall had a LOT riding on that, and he knew it. People do not seem to realize, though, just why it was so important to Randall to be accepted by the "cool kids", and consider him a "p****" for making that decision to stay with ROR, even though he already KNEW that they thought of him as a joke. It's like putting a tray of food in front of a starving person, food that is a bit too old and maybe spoiled, and offering him a choice between eating it and just hanging out with you for awhile, then saying, "man he sure is a greedy b******" when he opts to devour the food instead! Randall makes that choice because he's never had friends or been accepted by anyone, and because he's always been told that he's NOT "cool", that he's a "nerd", a "loser", etc., and now he's got a chance to change that. That is why he tells Mike not to ruin this for him; Mike obviously HAS had friends and believes in himself, so he cannot comprehend the fact that Randall has that deep inferiority complex. Just like that starving man is willing to eat that stale food, Randall is willing to put up with ROR's abuse and be the the "Omega" in Roar Omega Roar because even being the lowest on the totem pole means he's STILL ON THE TOTEM POLE. It was a mistake on his part, but I don't see that as making him a "p****" for having made that decision, and I can totally understand why he made that choice. Trust me, he's not the first young person to make that mistake, either. I can also understand why he'd go along with ROR's nasty prank on the OK guys at the party...like he says, what was he SUPPOSED to do? I'm betting that this was a test that Johnny had in mind, to see if Randall would obey him, and it was part of Randall's initiation into the gang Fraternity. Given that Johnny slaps Chet around when Chet just says something he doesn't like, wonder what he would have done to Randall, a newbie whom Johnny already thought of as a joke? You can see that look of surprise turn to fear in Randall's face when Johnny does that to Chet. He knows he's gotten himself in deep, but he also believes this is a necessary part of being accepted, to suffer the indignities heaped upon him, and I think that there's some subconscious belief on Randall's part that he DESERVES to be treated like this. If you're told all your life that you're a piece of s***, at some point, you will start to believe it, even if you want to prove otherwise. pitbulllady
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Post by mintygreen on Jun 20, 2013 22:30:06 GMT -5
I'm not really surprised. There's always going to be some people who see it that way.
And not everyone is as good at deeply understanding characters or takes the time to do so....and some just don't want to believe it either. They're entitled to their own opinion of course but yeah, I don't agree with their opinion of Randall.
As for being confident....honestly I think anyone can LOOK confident sometimes even if infact, they really aren't. It's not like people who are insecure are always going to look scared and nervous every second of their lives or something.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 20, 2013 23:00:12 GMT -5
I'm not really surprised. There's always going to be some people who see it that way. And not everyone is as good at deeply understanding characters or takes the time to do so....and some just don't want to believe it either. They're entitled to their own opinion of course but yeah, I don't agree with their opinion of Randall. As for being confident....honestly I think anyone can LOOK confident sometimes even if infact, they really aren't. It's not like people who are insecure are always going to look scared and nervous every second of their lives or something. Even during the Scare Games, after ROR has won a few rounds and advanced, you will see Randall grinning, looking happy one second, and then this look of doubt will cross his face, especially if he spots Mike, and he starts blinking his eyes a LOT, like really fast, almost the way a person does when they're trying to stop tears from forming, and a lot of times before he grins or looks happy, he will look up at Johnny almost as if he's asking Johnny's permission to look happy or celebrate. I suspect-though we don't actually hear it-that Johnny and his wannabe thugs had already had what my dog trainer friend, the late Anne Byrd, would have referred to as "an old-fashioned Wednesday night word-of-prayer service and come-to-Jesus meetin'" with Randall and made it clear what would happen if he lost any of his competitions...and it happened in front of thousands of jeering spectators, too. pitbulllady
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Post by TheOnePistol on Jun 20, 2013 23:14:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I've seen a few posts where they said he went from nice to full blown a$$ hole.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 20, 2013 23:57:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I've seen a few posts where they said he went from nice to full blown a$$ hole. Me, too, but he DOESN'T! I mean, his anger at Sulley is completely justifiable, and it cost him EVERYTHING that meant anything to him, but that is the ONLY negative thing he says. Even that incident at the party was totally Johnny's doing, and Randall had no choice but to comply. That relationship, with Johnny totally controlling him, is established from the moment we first see him with the ROR guys, when Johnny literally commands Randall to "do the trick" in the same tone of voice you'd use when training an obstinate dog! If Johnny could have gotten one of those electronic shock collars, he probably would have made Randall wear one. Even when the ROR's win something and have a right to celebrate, Randall looks to Johnny first, as if asking his permission to smile or look happy. At no point does Randall as like an a$$ hole, and his face speaks louder than words ever can. At a couple of points, when Johnny IS being an a$$ hole to Mike(and Johnny is REALLY good at being one, too), if you watch Randall's face carefully, you will see that smile fade and him start to blink his eyes a lot, really fast...the way people do when they're trying to blink back tears and not show emotion. I have always had the impression of Randall that at some point, early in his life, somebody had instilled in him that it was "obey or get the crap beaten out of you", and that mindset carried over to his college, and later, his adult life. pitbulllady
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Post by TheOnePistol on Jun 21, 2013 0:15:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I've seen a few posts where they said he went from nice to full blown a$$ hole. Me, too, but he DOESN'T! I mean, his anger at Sulley is completely justifiable, and it cost him EVERYTHING that meant anything to him, but that is the ONLY negative thing he says. Even that incident at the party was totally Johnny's doing, and Randall had no choice but to comply. That relationship, with Johnny totally controlling him, is established from the moment we first see him with the ROR guys, when Johnny literally commands Randall to "do the trick" in the same tone of voice you'd use when training an obstinate dog! If Johnny could have gotten one of those electronic shock collars, he probably would have made Randall wear one. Even when the ROR's win something and have a right to celebrate, Randall looks to Johnny first, as if asking his permission to smile or look happy. At no point does Randall as like an a$$ hole, and his face speaks louder than words ever can. At a couple of points, when Johnny IS being an a$$ hole to Mike(and Johnny is REALLY good at being one, too), if you watch Randall's face carefully, you will see that smile fade and him start to blink his eyes a lot, really fast...the way people do when they're trying to blink back tears and not show emotion. I have always had the impression of Randall that at some point, early in his life, somebody had instilled in him that it was "obey or get the crap beaten out of you", and that mindset carried over to his college, and later, his adult life. pitbulllady Jeez, this fist wave of people just really don't get Randy, either that or they just don't pay attention. I hope this negative wave fades away over the next few days as more people see the movie. I also just saw another post where somebody said that at first he was nice but turned out to be just a social climber. Like I said, I hope this fades because right now its not looking good. I really need to see this movie for myself but work is getting in the way.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 21, 2013 0:29:07 GMT -5
Me, too, but he DOESN'T! I mean, his anger at Sulley is completely justifiable, and it cost him EVERYTHING that meant anything to him, but that is the ONLY negative thing he says. Even that incident at the party was totally Johnny's doing, and Randall had no choice but to comply. That relationship, with Johnny totally controlling him, is established from the moment we first see him with the ROR guys, when Johnny literally commands Randall to "do the trick" in the same tone of voice you'd use when training an obstinate dog! If Johnny could have gotten one of those electronic shock collars, he probably would have made Randall wear one. Even when the ROR's win something and have a right to celebrate, Randall looks to Johnny first, as if asking his permission to smile or look happy. At no point does Randall as like an a$$ hole, and his face speaks louder than words ever can. At a couple of points, when Johnny IS being an a$$ hole to Mike(and Johnny is REALLY good at being one, too), if you watch Randall's face carefully, you will see that smile fade and him start to blink his eyes a lot, really fast...the way people do when they're trying to blink back tears and not show emotion. I have always had the impression of Randall that at some point, early in his life, somebody had instilled in him that it was "obey or get the crap beaten out of you", and that mindset carried over to his college, and later, his adult life. pitbulllady Jeez, this fist wave of people just really don't get Randy, either that or they just don't pay attention. I hope this negative wave fades away over the next few days as more people see the movie. I also just saw another post where somebody said that at first he was nice but turned out to be just a social climber. Like I said, I hope this fades because right now its not looking good. I really need to see this movie for myself but work is getting in the way. It's disturbing how little people actually SEE of a movie, how they are unable to make inferences about characters' behavior and what-not. Unless it's plainly stated, out-loud, then the point usually goes over everyone's head. I mean, YEAH, Randall was a "social climber". When you are at the freakin' BOTTOM of the social "ladder"-hell, Randall was UNDER the thing-the only direction you CAN go is UP, which means you have to CLIMB, people! Randall's profile on his poster states that he had aspirations for an active SOCIAL LIFE, filled with FRIENDS, so yeah, that was part of his goal. He was trying to finally shake whatever negative image he'd been stuck with, which must have included being labeled "NOT cool", and start over, making friends for what was probably the first time in his life. WHY is this a bad thing, I must ask? pitbulllady
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Post by TheOnePistol on Jun 21, 2013 0:54:32 GMT -5
Jeez, this fist wave of people just really don't get Randy, either that or they just don't pay attention. I hope this negative wave fades away over the next few days as more people see the movie. I also just saw another post where somebody said that at first he was nice but turned out to be just a social climber. Like I said, I hope this fades because right now its not looking good. I really need to see this movie for myself but work is getting in the way. It's disturbing how little people actually SEE of a movie, how they are unable to make inferences about characters' behavior and what-not. Unless it's plainly stated, out-loud, then the point usually goes over everyone's head. I mean, YEAH, Randall was a "social climber". When you are at the freakin' BOTTOM of the social "ladder"-hell, Randall was UNDER the thing-the only direction you CAN go is UP, which means you have to CLIMB, people! Randall's profile on his poster states that he had aspirations for an active SOCIAL LIFE, filled with FRIENDS, so yeah, that was part of his goal. He was trying to finally shake whatever negative image he'd been stuck with, which must have included being labeled "NOT cool", and start over, making friends for what was probably the first time in his life. WHY is this a bad thing, I must ask? pitbulllady I am pleased to see we have our new argument established for people who still want to hate on Randall and this one is more obvious and fact. I'm sure Pixar has good intentions and knows what they're doing. Heck they MADE the movie, they are the ones that gave Randy all these little scenes, body language, and facial expressions. So Pixar obviously knows, despite the haters. And as for his last line towards Sully, I mean they HAD to tie MU Randy with MI Randall somehow, and even that was done very VERY mildly, its almost as if they didn't want to show him acting even slightly mean but had to just a little bit to show the beginning of the transition into his future self. So basically, I believe we got Pixars attention. Now we just got to get the haters to shut up. lol I also am starting to believe that Pixar gave Randy very little screen time on purpose. Its obvious that Randy is important to them and even though they gave him very little screen time, his actual character and the way it was portrayed made it just as big as Mike and Sully's if not bigger. So fingers crossed on Randy getting is own movie, because like I said, Pixar knows.
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CrazyDiamond
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
I'm shining!
Posts: 270
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Post by CrazyDiamond on Jun 21, 2013 4:08:22 GMT -5
It's disturbing how little people actually SEE of a movie, how they are unable to make inferences about characters' behavior and what-not. Unless it's plainly stated, out-loud, then the point usually goes over everyone's head. I mean, YEAH, Randall was a "social climber". When you are at the freakin' BOTTOM of the social "ladder"-hell, Randall was UNDER the thing-the only direction you CAN go is UP, which means you have to CLIMB, people! Randall's profile on his poster states that he had aspirations for an active SOCIAL LIFE, filled with FRIENDS, so yeah, that was part of his goal. He was trying to finally shake whatever negative image he'd been stuck with, which must have included being labeled "NOT cool", and start over, making friends for what was probably the first time in his life. WHY is this a bad thing, I must ask? pitbulllady I am pleased to see we have our new argument established for people who still want to hate on Randall and this one is more obvious and fact. I'm sure Pixar has good intentions and knows what they're doing. Heck they MADE the movie, they are the ones that gave Randy all these little scenes, body language, and facial expressions. So Pixar obviously knows, despite the haters. And as for his last line towards Sully, I mean they HAD to tie MU Randy with MI Randall somehow, and even that was done very VERY mildly, its almost as if they didn't want to show him acting even slightly mean but had to just a little bit to show the beginning of the transition into his future self. So basically, I believe we got Pixars attention. Now we just got to get the haters to shut up. lol I also am starting to believe that Pixar gave Randy very little screen time on purpose. Its obvious that Randy is important to them and even though they gave him very little screen time, his actual character and the way it was portrayed made it just as big as Mike and Sully's if not bigger. So fingers crossed on Randy getting is own movie, because like I said, Pixar knows. I totally agree with your opinion on his portrayal in MU, Pistol (and hope you're right about the sequel). If they made him into too much of a Woobie, it would spoil the original movie and they'd risk people hating Mike and Sulley. This way, we just got to know that he was a nice guy who believed that being with the cool kids is all that matters, and it got the better of him. Learning that he was wrong all this time himself would make an excellent message for a sequel. Now, about the haters: The MU tag on Tumblr is currently a firehose, so keeping up with individual Randall haters there will be impossible in following months... More than make the haters shut up, we just have to endure. Make fan art, write fanfics, keep our websites active (will be on that in a minute myself, hehe), keep forums alive and do other things to constantly remind people that Randall has way more loyal fans than other Monsterverse characters. If we keep pushing too hard to prove the haters wrong, it will only make them come up with new dumb arguments that will only cost us time to deal with. This is not just true for Randall, but it's true in general. My advice to all of you (and this is the lawyer in me speaking) is to stick with hard evidence. Push arguments based on what people can't deny. If it works at a court, it ought to work on the interwebs as well. I mean something like this: "Have you seen how genuinely happy and relaxed was Randy with Mike? Compare that to the tension when he's with ROR. Do you really think he's enjoying being with them? Don't believe me? GO SEE THE DAMN MOVIE" or "Just look at the bags under his eyes, look at how tired, sad and worried he looks in MI compared to MU. Do you really think that this is all just jealousy and no stress? Don't believe me? GO SEE THE DAMN MOVIE" and if they still persist on Randall being evil and deserving his punishment, tell them that they apparently do not get that the message of MI is compassion and understanding, even for things you consider terrifying, dangerous or evil, and their hatred is hypocritical. So far *knocks on wood* it has worked every time. EVERY. DAMN. TIME.
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Post by mintygreen on Jun 21, 2013 20:55:25 GMT -5
I saw the movie today.....and honestly....
*SPOILER*
I'm kind of annoyed that they didn't show Johnny actually taking Randall's ROR jacket away from him and kicking him out of the group. Why? Not that I'd like seeing that happen to Randall...it's just that it's pretty obvious to me that that must be what happened(I don't think he just left ROR on his own accord since that wouldn't make any sense based on how Randall acts in this film)....and I feel like they just didn't show Johnny directly kicking him out on screen because it would have made people feel bad for Randall and it's like they didn't want the audience to really feel this way about Randall or notice what really happened to him.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 21, 2013 21:18:10 GMT -5
But I heard that they DID show that in the screenings, so I don't know, maybe they took it out because they thought it would make Randall's story too sympathetic and still make his anger at Sullivan seem more justified, thus weakening that "link" between MU Randy and MI Randall, that they needed to show. I'm disappointed, though, because there ARE a lot of people who do not realize that Randall gets kicked out, and don't make that connection between him not being seen anymore and Johnny offering Sulley that "spare" ROR jacket, so to them it just seems like Randall was being a sore loser and hating Sulley for no good reason, turning into a jerk, in other words.
pitbulllady
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Post by Guest2 on Jun 21, 2013 21:27:13 GMT -5
But I heard that they DID show that in the screenings, so I don't know, maybe they took it out because they thought it would make Randall's story too sympathetic and still make his anger at Sullivan seem more justified, thus weakening that "link" between MU Randy and MI Randall, that they needed to show. I'm disappointed, though, because there ARE a lot of people who do not realize that Randall gets kicked out, and don't make that connection between him not being seen anymore and Johnny offering Sulley that "spare" ROR jacket, so to them it just seems like Randall was being a sore loser and hating Sulley for no good reason, turning into a jerk, in other words. pitbulllady So what exactly happens to Randy after he loses? What does Johnny say to him? (I won't be able to see the movie for a LONG time, so I don't mind spoilers)
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 21, 2013 21:46:05 GMT -5
But I heard that they DID show that in the screenings, so I don't know, maybe they took it out because they thought it would make Randall's story too sympathetic and still make his anger at Sullivan seem more justified, thus weakening that "link" between MU Randy and MI Randall, that they needed to show. I'm disappointed, though, because there ARE a lot of people who do not realize that Randall gets kicked out, and don't make that connection between him not being seen anymore and Johnny offering Sulley that "spare" ROR jacket, so to them it just seems like Randall was being a sore loser and hating Sulley for no good reason, turning into a jerk, in other words. pitbulllady So what exactly happens to Randy after he loses? What does Johnny say to him? (I won't be able to see the movie for a LONG time, so I don't mind spoilers) I've asked for confirmation of what went down, since I'd heard about through PM's back in April, but if the scene that was described to me at that time is indeed what was shown in the screenings, then there was a LOT that got left out by the time the movie made it to release, and it would have made Randall look a whole lot more sympathetic and cut down on some of that, "but he just turned into a jerk for no reason and deserved what he got". pitbulllady
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