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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 31, 2005 15:17:00 GMT -5
I don't think Sullivan is evil per se, but then, as I've often said, FEW individuals are completely evil or completely good. Depending on circumstances, everyone is capable of doing deeds of eithr calibre. The issue with Sullivan is that he CHOSE to do something very wrong, a deed that I would certainly consider evil in and of itself, instead of doing the RIGHT thing, which would have been to take Randall to the proper authorities. He chose instead to get even with him, to get revenge on him, by deliberately throwing him through a door into the Human World, where he knew it was likely that Randall would be killed. Yeah, I know Randall did some very wrong things, too, BUT he wasn't the one who came up with those ideas, but was simply following orders-orders, that if NOT followed, would surely have meant severe punishment for him. He was, so to speak, in a no-win situation.
pitbulllady
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Post by Ranger Parsec on Mar 31, 2005 15:25:18 GMT -5
I don't think Sullivan is evil per se, but then, as I've often said, FEW individuals are completely evil or completely good. Depending on circumstances, everyone is capable of doing deeds of eithr calibre. The issue with Sullivan is that he CHOSE to do something very wrong, a deed that I would certainly consider evil in and of itself. . . Yes, that much is true. But I'd consider that the closest thing to "evil" as one could be.
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Post by tailmister on Mar 31, 2005 21:30:28 GMT -5
Wow.
Randall not knowing about Sulley being friends with Boo, and Sullivan not knowing about the 'greater picture' of the S.E. plot. (Waternoose being leader, Randall sleep-deprived, etc.) It seems to make the event a pretty tragic event.
At least in my view anyway...
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Post by tailmister on Mar 31, 2005 21:31:02 GMT -5
Wow.
Randall not knowing about Sulley being friends with Boo, and Sullivan not knowing about the 'greater picture' of the S.E. plot. (Waternoose being leader, Randall sleep-deprived, etc.) It seems to make the event a pretty tragic event.
At least in my view anyway...
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Post by RandallBoggs on Mar 31, 2005 22:03:22 GMT -5
First sentence Pitbulllady, yeah....I turn to that.
Sullivan and Randall do have themselves a history. Even if you guy's don't believe me and him about him being in school with Sullivan.....
You DO believe that Sullivan had STOLEN Randall's title of Top Scarer with a little help from Waternoose.....
Hmm..... If only people pay attention to Past Stories more.....
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Post by pitbulllady on Mar 31, 2005 23:38:24 GMT -5
Yeah, there's no doubt that the title was taken from Randall, with Waternoose's help. There's just no way a JANITOR is just suddenly gonna be Top Scarer, not just ONCE, mind you, but month after month, in spite of there being hundreds of other Scarers vying for the same rank. The fact that he was KNOWN friends with the CEO should have made SOMEBODY besides Randall suspicious, yet no one seems to notice THAT(or at least, to indicate that they notice)! As for Randall and Sullivan being in school together, though-nope, nobody's gonna ever convince me of that! That would almost be like me and my own FATHER being in school together-could not have happened!
And, yeah, Tailmister-Randall would have had NO WAY of knowing that Sullivan was friends with a human child, and no reason to even suspect it! People who watch the movie assume that he would, and that makes him seem all the more "mean" and "evil" to them, that he's trying to break up this sweet little relationship, but seriously, WHY would Randall even think that another monster would be protecting a "dangerous" human child, given how they feel about humans in general, and children in particular?
pitbulllady
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Post by lizardgirl on Apr 1, 2005 7:45:28 GMT -5
And Waternoose had real reason to help Sullivan out- he knew that Sullivan and Randall didn't like each other, so making Sullivan Top Scarer would push Randall even more.
I also don't think that Randall and Sullivan went to school together- there's this massive age gap, and the only remotely likely way is if Randall was in his first year and Sullivan in his last.
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I ♥ umbrellas
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
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Post by I ♥ umbrellas on Apr 1, 2005 9:40:04 GMT -5
Yes, I suppose you are right pitbullady what sullivan did was evil in a sense but, if you think of it from a childs prosepctive if he hadn't banished randall and waternoosethen he might not have been seen as such a great 'hero' of the movie, also pixar may have wanted to finish the film there because it is for family audiences and that way young children wouldn't be too tired and get bored and stop watching the film, they must have wanted the film to be interesting for younger viewers and still be easy watching for them!-they also have to have a contrast between sullivan and randall to show children the differences so that they can easily point out the 'evil one' of the two.
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Post by lizardgirl on Apr 1, 2005 10:44:35 GMT -5
I see what you mean, but even some little kids have come out of the cinema after watching MI thinking 'if Waternoose started the whole thing, how come he got a nicer punishment than Randall?' It's sort of teaching them that if you're the boss of a company, you'll get off with a nicer sentance then if you're just an employee. Also, I don't see why Sullivan just didn't hand Randall over to the CDA. There was no way that Randall could've escaped. It would've been so much easier if they just said, "hey, we got the guy that built the machine, and we've got the kid" and still do the trick thing that they did with Boo's costume.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 1, 2005 10:56:38 GMT -5
Well. Lets just say....even though Randall was a nice guy then....that racism still held strong. Ok....whatever you say Pitbulllady...... People don't really get them till they're finished...
Besides. Randall WAS doing the SAME thing in the end, trying to get her back to her door.
Yes. Pushing Sullivan to Top Scarer, like I had said when we first talked about this. Ok....you may not believe us....but....
Waternoose WASN'T banished. WHAT!? Banishing....no excuse me....ILLEGALY exiling Randall does NOT make him a HERO AT ALL! Belive me....I know what a hero is...
Either way....Randall loses. Sullivan's disliking of Randall got him exiled. Randall's.....shall we say....."loss" of not finishing the extractor....would lead to the same thing with the C.D.A...... Randall would get it hard in any way thanks to those two....
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Post by lizardgirl on Apr 1, 2005 11:24:21 GMT -5
Even if Sullivan had given Randall in to the CDA, he still wouldn't have been an outright hero just because of the way he had handled the whole situation. There were countless times when he was dishonest, and refused to tell anyone what was going on. He defied the Monster World equivelant of the police without regretting doing so, too.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 1, 2005 11:26:39 GMT -5
Preciscely..... Regardless.....Sullivan would get off scot free....because "nothing bad happens to the hero" pfft...
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I ♥ umbrellas
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
the Umbrella of DOOM...its coming
Posts: 114
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Post by I ♥ umbrellas on Apr 2, 2005 10:31:30 GMT -5
well....thats techniqually not true...the hero always gets put in a sticky situation mind you they never die so i know what you mean!
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 2, 2005 12:45:35 GMT -5
Ok true..... Some Heros do have allot of trouble. Like Dori getting stung by jellyfish in Nemo, and me getting stabbed by Kroitz.
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Post by lizardgirl on Apr 3, 2005 4:27:54 GMT -5
There always has to be some sort of trouble though, otherwise they wouldn't be heros. ;D
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