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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 8, 2013 20:13:54 GMT -5
Tis life. Misunderstandings and in-control-ability of our own lives, which are tampered by others and whatever you want to call "fate" "destiny" or whatever..
That's probably one thing that frustrated Randall beyond belief, that nobody was speaking up. Some people were probably friends of Sullivan, at a tad, some admire him for his (natural) hard work behavior, and others just floked to whomever was on top.
As for the others...seems they may not speak up too much or be direct, like Randall was. But maybe Randall was getting his own backlash. He WAS Top Scarer, and he was good at his job. But, he wasn't overly social. Sullivan, when he took the position, was. He had something Randall lacked (or rather, something that was severely damaged, ironically by Sullivan himself). So it seems because of Randall's damaged ability to interact with others, his reputation didn't build up as well as Sullivan's did. Most people, like the uninitiated MI fanbase, believed he was just jealous, but Randall knew better. SOMETHING was up. But because of his reputation fall, people didn't express their agreement on the topic to him much.
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Post by mintygreen on Jun 8, 2013 20:54:31 GMT -5
OMG that scene is so adorable! Yeah, seems...schools in the monster world have very accommodating chairs, though it seems they are generally oversize. As we see, Randall and Wazowski have something breathing room while the others seem...squished. So guessing he, thankfully, enjoys a lot of space for whatever chair he gets into. I have remarked on this before Pistol, as one of the ideas for the direction with Randall's story in the sequel I'm working on. At first it was a dominance thing...then it turned into "Randy" being a hallucination of sorts...which can actually be funny for the audience (sad as it still is). But the thing is...Randall is still both those people. He's a kind soul, but he's also a fighter. Finding the balance is the key. === Considering the reaction, as me and PBL had detailed, when he first blends from surprise...it's pretty likely his childhood was tough, and that something may have happened. People can be naturally nervous...but Randall's over-kindness may be compensating a balance in his view of the world to "make things better"...as in making things better due to his own experience of something (or multiple somethings) really bad that happened to him. One thing other people (outside the core of his fandom) forget, is that this is set 10 years ago. A LOT can happen in those years. Pixar did us (and him) right by showing him this way, because that's honestly who he was. He was a good person, got screwed over by life, and figured he had to change. He hung on, but got screwed again, leading up to an inevitable snap. === At the very least, Ran may have thought "whatever's on the other side HAS to be better". The thing about the "I plan to" line...for one...Randall was Top Scarer before Sullivan even took a step onto the Scarefloor. And given what happens in MU...well...in the end Randall IS better, and he knows it. And it's true. He is the better scarer. But, things came to the point where everybody around him was saying Sullivan was, but Randall knew it wasn't true, probably leading to his reputation falling. He's dang good at his job. Heck, sleep deprived AND probably sick, he was STILL matching up to Sullivan's "big numbers". I still believe, like others, those numbers were tampered with. Sullivan's a great scarer, but so is Randall, and he got the headline. === Now to RANDALL, Sullivan's "may the best monster win" may have been arrogant itself. Randall KNEW he was the best, and he had proved it for the past several years to try and rebuild his self-esteem. But then Sullivan takes his position, somehow, and Randall's been trying to figure out how. Now...this is going to be something I'm going into in the Series, but I'll say it to make the point. Randall has NO real idea that Sullivan's changed for the better. The only image he has of Sullivan is the SAME jerk he saw in college. The same jerk that was a show-off, that was arrogant, and that was Mr. Popular. The same jerk that SOMEHOW his former roommate, who once hated the blue behemoth, was now chummy with. Randall is unaware of Sullivan's change of heart and all that happened between him and Wazowski. Of course, the end of the Scare Games, for reasons show in MU, also influenced Randall's perception on Sullivan. So as far as Randall was concerned, that "may the best monster win" may have been a genuinely arrogant. It may not have been a serious "old wound" Randall was still reeling from, but to him, Sullivan may have been trying to push his buttons. As we know, Sullivan wasn't... It's...all really...a big misunderstanding for everybody. Randall has this unchanged (because of what HE went through and being absent from the events) view of Sullivan...and Sullivan doesn't KNOW what Randall's been through and what his OWN actions have done. Well, given what Sulley does in MU, Randall has EVERY reason to suspect that Sulley's success has not been entirely honestly earned! He just thinks that Sulley is actually at fault, when it's really someone else tampering with the numbers behind the scenes and making sure that Sulley gets chosen as "Employee of the Month", for month after month, etc. I've already posted the odds of Sulley actually doing that, based only on the number of SCARERS, not even including all the other employees at that factory because their numbers aren't known, and it exceeds the odds for winning the biggest Power Ball Jackpot lottery in the US! There is NO WAY anyone will ever convince me that Sulley was just that darn good at his job and there was no one(*cough* Waternoose *cough*)pulling some strings behind the scenes! If *I* had worked there, even in a capacity other than Scarer, I'd be PO'd as hell if ONE person out of thousands of employees kept getting "Employee of the Month" for 11 months straight! The thing with Randall, though, is that his true nature is not to "rock the boat", not to be confrontational at all, and once he'd had the chance to work up close and personal with the CEO, knowing how fond Waternoose was of Sulley, Randall probably figured out that it might not be in the interest of his health to complain TOO much. Still, it's hard for me to fathom that out of all those other employees, Randall was the only one who had an issue with Sullivan's unprecedented "success". Either there were others that we just don't see or hear from in the movie, or that factory employed some of the stupidest bunch of morons in the entire Monster World! Even if Sulley IS always the one who earns the most points, it still doesn't mean he should constantly get employee of the month. No matter how good someone is, that kind of stuff needs to be spread out a bit more since other employees who work just as hard, even if they don't always get as many points as Sulley, should still be appreciated and recognized. It's not like the entire company could run on Sulley alone. Besides when other employees also feel appreciated, it creates a better work environment and overall more work will get done. Also aside from it being strange that no one else was upset about it(in the real world I don't think Randall would be the only one who's upset that someone else always gets employee of the month)....but honestly if I were in Sulley's place and always got employee of the month every month I would actually be bothered and worried that people are going to start thinking I'm sleeping with the boss or something like that. Plus I would just feel bad if I always got it when other people work just as hard. |
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 8, 2013 21:01:48 GMT -5
Well, there ARE Assistants of the Month or something like that, I've seen Wazowski's plaque on that...
But yeah, EMPLOYEE of the Month is different. Scarer of the Month...ok maybe that would be more realistic. But out of ALL employees that's just...unless of course it's that "popularity contest" thing. Wherein everybody else is voting for Sullivan in hopes of parties on his Top Scarer salary.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 8, 2013 21:28:42 GMT -5
Well, there ARE Assistants of the Month or something like that, I've seen Wazowski's plaque on that... But yeah, EMPLOYEE of the Month is different. Scarer of the Month...ok maybe that would be more realistic. But out of ALL employees that's just...unless of course it's that "popularity contest" thing. Wherein everybody else is voting for Sullivan in hopes of parties on his Top Scarer salary. Even just "Scarer of the Month" for 11 months straight is unrealistic, since my odds of Sulley actually doing that WERE based only on the number of Scarers, since that's the only number I had to work with, and that's where those Power Ball Jackpot Winning odds came from! There's just no way he did that without some strings-make that a LOT of strings-being pulled. It's like that scene on the Scare Floor when both Randall and Sulley fill their respective Scream canisters, and Sulley gets 100 points added to his totals...but Randall only gets 75, for DOING THE EXACT SAME THING! Now, I know some folks want to argue about the "quality" of the Scream, etc., but I didn't see any indication that the canisters were equipped to distinguish how one source of Scream was better than another, only whether they were filled or not. They were designed to measure quantity, NOT quality. Full is full! I had a student this past school year ask me why Randall was right to be angry about Sulley's success, and I used that scene as evidence. When he still didn't quite "get it", I put it THIS way: "suppose I give you and So-And-So(naming another student in the class) a test, the exact same test. You both answer all of the questions correctly, no wrong answers, but I give HIM(So-And-So) a 100, and I only give YOU a 75, a D, even though you answered all of the questions correctly, too. Now, would YOU be upset?" Needless to say, the kid "got it", and Randall didn't seem like quite such an unreasonable jerk anymore! pitbulllady |
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 8, 2013 21:43:12 GMT -5
*nods* Yes, the points did have a difference. I can't recall the EXACT amounts but...going with 100/75...that's a 25% difference. Now percentage wise that seems...rather oddly well rounded.
I mean granted, Randall was not at the top of his game with his condition at the time, but he still filled his canisters and scared kids just as well as Sullivan did. And YES, full is full in this instance.
You know, Fungus' comment on the Scream Intake Valve makes me wonder. Maybe Randall's station was tampered with. Though he, and Fungus, may have taken a look themselves but...still, wonder.
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Post by lizardgirl on Jun 9, 2013 5:20:47 GMT -5
Yeah, seems...schools in the monster world have very accommodating chairs, though it seems they are generally oversize. As we see, Randall and Wazowski have something breathing room while the others seem...squished. So guessing he, thankfully, enjoys a lot of space for whatever chair he gets into. I have remarked on this before Pistol, as one of the ideas for the direction with Randall's story in the sequel I'm working on. At first it was a dominance thing...then it turned into "Randy" being a hallucination of sorts...which can actually be funny for the audience (sad as it still is). But the thing is...Randall is still both those people. He's a kind soul, but he's also a fighter. Finding the balance is the key. === Considering the reaction, as me and PBL had detailed, when he first blends from surprise...it's pretty likely his childhood was tough, and that something may have happened. People can be naturally nervous...but Randall's over-kindness may be compensating a balance in his view of the world to "make things better"...as in making things better due to his own experience of something (or multiple somethings) really bad that happened to him. One thing other people (outside the core of his fandom) forget, is that this is set 10 years ago. A LOT can happen in those years. Pixar did us (and him) right by showing him this way, because that's honestly who he was. He was a good person, got screwed over by life, and figured he had to change. He hung on, but got screwed again, leading up to an inevitable snap. === At the very least, Ran may have thought "whatever's on the other side HAS to be better". The thing about the "I plan to" line...for one...Randall was Top Scarer before Sullivan even took a step onto the Scarefloor. And given what happens in MU...well...in the end Randall IS better, and he knows it. And it's true. He is the better scarer. But, things came to the point where everybody around him was saying Sullivan was, but Randall knew it wasn't true, probably leading to his reputation falling. He's dang good at his job. Heck, sleep deprived AND probably sick, he was STILL matching up to Sullivan's "big numbers". I still believe, like others, those numbers were tampered with. Sullivan's a great scarer, but so is Randall, and he got the headline. === Now to RANDALL, Sullivan's "may the best monster win" may have been arrogant itself. Randall KNEW he was the best, and he had proved it for the past several years to try and rebuild his self-esteem. But then Sullivan takes his position, somehow, and Randall's been trying to figure out how. Now...this is going to be something I'm going into in the Series, but I'll say it to make the point. Randall has NO real idea that Sullivan's changed for the better. The only image he has of Sullivan is the SAME jerk he saw in college. The same jerk that was a show-off, that was arrogant, and that was Mr. Popular. The same jerk that SOMEHOW his former roommate, who once hated the blue behemoth, was now chummy with. Randall is unaware of Sullivan's change of heart and all that happened between him and Wazowski. Of course, the end of the Scare Games, for reasons show in MU, also influenced Randall's perception on Sullivan. So as far as Randall was concerned, that "may the best monster win" may have been a genuinely arrogant. It may not have been a serious "old wound" Randall was still reeling from, but to him, Sullivan may have been trying to push his buttons. As we know, Sullivan wasn't... It's...all really...a big misunderstanding for everybody. Randall has this unchanged (because of what HE went through and being absent from the events) view of Sullivan...and Sullivan doesn't KNOW what Randall's been through and what his OWN actions have done. When he blends from surprise could be taken in two different ways. Firstly, as suggested here before, it might be that it's a learned response- that something bad has happened to him before, that it's been beneficial to be able to turn invisible, and hence the two were associated so it's a direct result of that negative experience. Secondly, it could be purely instinctual; have you ever jumped at a loud noise before? Knee-jerk reactions like that don't have to be learnt from experience but are there from birth. Admittedly by the age of 18 you'd think that he'd have learnt to get a handle on it a bit, but in fact it being a knee-jerk reaction would explain why it's so difficult for him to control it, as such reactions bypass higher processing areas of the brain, i.e. the areas which he would use to control it. In the same way, I'm sure no-one on here can say that they are always able to avoid themselves from jumping at an unexpected noise, haha. But, again, there's no real way of knowing which it is in this case. Yes, it's a real testament to Randall that if, theoretically, he didn't have the nicest of childhoods, he's such a pleasant guy in MU. Most people would bypass that stage and go straight to being a lot less overtly friendly (more like Randall in MI, though stress and other factors clearly made him much less likeable at that time). I guess for Randall, college really is his last chance at making friends and leading a happy, normal life. When that chance is blown (partly by him, partly by others) he sees no reason to keep trying. I base all of my 'theories' and ideas and so on entirely on the movie itself- I don't take anything else, even stuff printed in official Disney/Pixar books and so on, as cannon, because as we've seen before there's a lot of contradictory information and things that don't make much sense. Hence as far as I'm concerned, although it's likely that Randall was once Top Scarer, there's nothing in the film itself that directly states this and so I don't take it as fact. Anyhow, my point still stands: it doesn't matter how good you are, even if Randall was the best Scarer in the WORLD, haha, that doesn't give you an excuse to boast or brag (not that Randall does much of either of these things, though he does hint at it). Randall may be the better Scarer in a number of ways, but ultimately Sulley was at the top at the time of the movie. Hence I always took the 'I plan to' line as Randall thinking of himself as better, regardless of the numbers. Yes, I can see how (to Randall at least) that line might've been arrogant or even threatening, even if Sulley did just say it to try and build bridges. And I agree, that sort of misunderstanding between the two of them especially is very unfortunate and seems to play a big part in their poor relationship. It's a real shame. In reference to some of the other posts on this thread, I totally agree with the idea that Randall suspected something (and that something was indeed going on). I guess everyone else either didn't notice it (there do seem to be a lot of oblivious individuals at MI) or they did notice it but didn't speak up (which would also make a lot of sense- who wants to rock the boat? I can imagine a lot of people gossiping about it but not doing anything). That must've been incredibly frustrating. However, if Randall knew something was dodgy, why did he keep trying so much? By this logic he must've known that all of his efforts were pointless and that Sulley would ultimately always be on top due to number-fiddling. Perhaps because it was done so cleverly, since Randall was always right on Sulley's heels (and as we see in the film, even manages to surpass him for a moment) that kept giving Randall hope that perhaps it COULD be done, just for it to be taken away from him again. |
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 9, 2013 10:05:03 GMT -5
I do believe that the reason(s) Randall kept trying to get ahead in MI was partially due to just what you said, LG-that Waternoose kept tantalizing him with the possibility of success, only to yank it out from under him at the last second. That's what we see in the movie, where he'd get SOOOO close, even briefly beat Sulley, and then something extraordinary would "just happen" and he'd be once again relegated to second place. You'll find out in MU, if you have not gotten that "spoiler" already, just WHY it's so important to Randall not to lose to Sulley. It has nothing to do with the All-Time Scream record, either. The other thing going on, which I posted on here before in that "analysis" of the MI characters by a Psychologist, is that Randall has, for whatever reasons, come to see Waternoose as a father figure. In fact, we have discussed that very thing before on this board. I myself have theorized that either Randall's real father was deceased, or otherwise absent throughout much of his life, or that he was a very ineffectual parent, possibly abusive, or just simply had little interest in his son. Randall therefore attaches himself, emotionally, to older guys looking for that guidance and protection and parental love that a father is supposed to give. It blinds him to the faults of the person he looks up to. At some point, Waternoose must have done or said something that made Randall think that he actually cared, and Randall started working earnestly to try to earn his total respect and love as a father would love his son, and the awful thing is, Waternoose KNOWS this. In fact, he possibly realized that Randall had that void in his life and that this need, along with the need for acceptance and belonging, was Randall's Achilles hell, and deliberately mislead Randall into thinking that he cared, when he had plans all along to simply use Randall and later discard him. By also deliberately favoring Sulley and setting him up on that pedestal, Waternoose was able to fuel the fires of that pseudo sibling rivalry, thus helping to ensure that Randall would stop at nothing now to earn the place of Waternoose's favorite "son". I don't even think it was a coincidence that Sulley wound up working on the same Scare Floor as Randall, but part of that orchestrated move to put them into direct competition with each other.
pitbulllady
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Post by lizardgirl on Jun 9, 2013 13:46:18 GMT -5
I agree PBL about the whole Waternoose as a surrogate father thing, and I can really imagine him using Randall's Achilles heel, as you put it, when first proposing the idea of the SE to him- telling him that only Randall was capable of building the thing, perhaps even saying that he'd be proud or something to that effect of Randall if he managed to achieve this, and so on. And that in turn would have made Randall put aside any worries or fears about the machine (to a certain extent, at least) and hence sign up to the project. I know we know this already, but it's amazing just how conniving Waternoose was- I mean, everyone who has watched MI knows that he's deceptive in regards to Sulley in particular, but he really pulled the wool over Randall's eyes too, and Randall, so desperate for recognition and that fatherly consideration from him like you said, fell for it.
And yeah, again, totally agree that it can't have been a coincidence that the two of them were scaring next to each other, especially in terms of the size of MI; it's such a huge place with so many Scarers that, well, it really couldn't have been a coincidence! I don't know the details of that scene in MU that you're referring to, PBL, the one which really changes Randall's perception of Sulley, but I know that it was a catalyst for a lot of his feelings towards him (and I know about that line he mutters afterwards) so it must've been a horrifying moment when Randall realised that he'd be scaring literally next door to his arch rival. I can imagine him almost seeing it as some sort of test of his words, that promise he made to himself in MU, and for him then to keep being bettered by Sulley in every aspect of his life must've been...gah. Awful. And Sulley, all along, so oblivious to everything!
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Post by pitbulllady on Jun 9, 2013 14:27:16 GMT -5
I agree PBL about the whole Waternoose as a surrogate father thing, and I can really imagine him using Randall's Achilles heel, as you put it, when first proposing the idea of the SE to him- telling him that only Randall was capable of building the thing, perhaps even saying that he'd be proud or something to that effect of Randall if he managed to achieve this, and so on. And that in turn would have made Randall put aside any worries or fears about the machine (to a certain extent, at least) and hence sign up to the project. I know we know this already, but it's amazing just how conniving Waternoose was- I mean, everyone who has watched MI knows that he's deceptive in regards to Sulley in particular, but he really pulled the wool over Randall's eyes too, and Randall, so desperate for recognition and that fatherly consideration from him like you said, fell for it. And yeah, again, totally agree that it can't have been a coincidence that the two of them were scaring next to each other, especially in terms of the size of MI; it's such a huge place with so many Scarers that, well, it really couldn't have been a coincidence! I don't know the details of that scene in MU that you're referring to, PBL, the one which really changes Randall's perception of Sulley, but I know that it was a catalyst for a lot of his feelings towards him (and I know about that line he mutters afterwards) so it must've been a horrifying moment when Randall realised that he'd be scaring literally next door to his arch rival. I can imagine him almost seeing it as some sort of test of his words, that promise he made to himself in MU, and for him then to keep being bettered by Sulley in every aspect of his life must've been...gah. Awful. And Sulley, all along, so oblivious to everything! You also have to consider that SULLEY winds up becoming Mike's "lifelong best friend" and "best chum", taking Randall's place in that role, too. From Randall's perspective, it would seem that Sulley not only stole his victory in the Scare Games, but also stole his one and only real friend(though I have to question just how genuine Mike's friendship actually was), and from what transpires immediately afterward, Randall probably thought that Sulley replaced him in ROR! Later, Sulley "robs" him of his status on the Scare Board, not just temporarily, which Randall would have been able to deal with, but on a steady basis. Logically, the leader on the Scare Board would have changed frequently; you would expect that position to go back and forth between at least a handful of different Scarers, so for ONE guy to consistently be at the top, out of thousands of Scarers, should have certainly raised suspicions. pitbulllady |
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 9, 2013 18:34:21 GMT -5
The thing is...it doesn't come up as often. I mean, take two other instances. Sullivan's roaring, and Hardscrabble's appearance. If Randall's blending was tied to simple surprise (other than a reaction to a threat), then he would have certainly blended then too.
When you hear a loud noise, and I know this from experience, that comes out of nowhere, at the least, you get this sort of...surge up your spine that may set your body into "ready mode". But what causes that, yeah...most of the time there's a reason for it. You sense something...and most of the time, you'd think it was something bad, which generally, it is.
Nice guys get screwed over, it's essentially a fact now. In this world, you can be the nicest guy in the world. You could innocently loan an associate your car out of that goodwill, it gets banged up, and suddenly you find yourself looking at debt. Yeah...at least you were nice right?
I think Randall HAS tried to hold on, at least after MU. That...geeky side of him was probably destroyed, but he still had that friendly bit in him. He just need time, a lot of time, to repair it once he got into a better state in life. Which...can be hard to achieve...
*folds arms* Actually LG, you can take that info from both films if you focus on just those. Sullivan and Wazowski...erm...well from both films, it's obvious that Randall was a scarer before either of them, and given his record we see in MI, he was an extraordinary scarer, above the rest. So naturally, he was Top Scarer before.
The thing was, Randall WAS better. Sullivan IS a great scarer, yes, but Randall, despite his seemingly-jealous-like claims, IS better, and he knows it. I think when he was Top Scarer he flaunted a bit, more out of a self-fulfilling way to repair his self-esteem since other people probably doubted him.
*nods* Yes, it's all how life's little threads go together.
As said, Randall KNEW he was better. Waternoose wasn't going to do anything, and seeing as how he was pulled into the Scream Extractor situation, it was dangerous to "talk bad about the CEO's pet scarer".
He wanted to prove he could still be the best DESPITE a person, who he thought, was cheating. This is why we see him less-than-boastful when he DOES get on top briefly. He KNEW he was better, knew that he could get back on top. but...it just keeps falling. Randall's a fighter, keep trying is...one of the things some people do.
=======
I'm aware of what happens between Sullivan and Randall...and funny enough, it deals with a "score" as well. Personally...I think it was downright wrong of the university. It was NOT a fair judgement. Nobody ELSE was interrupted in what they did.
===
I'm not 100% on this...but wouldn't it have been a kick in the face that it was SULLIVAN who inadvertently revealed to Waternoose (if he didn't know from Randall's father) about that certain "achilles heel" ?
And yeah, the placement of the two is just too coincidental.
And yes LG...it was what I predicted that would happen. It's not just on Sullivan...it was unfair and humiliating.
===
Ok I can mention this now...
Yep, Randall, during his Top Scarer years, noticed the friendship between the two...but going along with my "Randall doesn't know Sullivan's changed" bit...he can NOT comprehend why the two are friends. Him and Wazowski were and he tried to...well you'll see that when the time comes.
I don't think Randall saw that Sullivan was being suggested (again) to join ROR (with HIS jacket no less). He was...gone by then I think. He was already out, no reason to stay.
Considering the scores, early on Randall/Ranft/Luckey would have been the most productive scarers. While Randall probably help Top Scarer position the most frequent...
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jun 12, 2013 19:55:31 GMT -5
Ok, guess put this here. Saw a commercial a few seconds ago, along the lines of "Monsters University has everything"...and it just list stereotypes. You know, Jocks, Geeks, Cheerleaders.
When "Geeks" came up, it showed the bit with Randall turning invisible the first time hehehe.
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