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Hi <3
Dec 24, 2012 1:32:35 GMT -5
Post by purplelove on Dec 24, 2012 1:32:35 GMT -5
I just found this place totally by accident but it's awesome Randall has a fan forum! He is one of my favorite Disney villains and I am so excited to get to see him again in the new Monsters University movie that's coming out! ;D Anyways my name is Ashley and I'm really glad to be here.
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Hi <3
Dec 24, 2012 3:55:54 GMT -5
Post by mintygreen on Dec 24, 2012 3:55:54 GMT -5
I just found this place totally by accident but it's awesome Randall has a fan forum! He is one of my favorite Disney villains and I am so excited to get to see him again in the new Monsters University movie that's coming out! ;D Anyways my name is Ashley and I'm really glad to be here. Welcome. A lot of us here don't really consider him much of a villain though...we mostly feel bad that he was treated unfairly(no one should honestly ever give the same employee employee of the month every single month - that's just wrong). But anyway, I'm glad you like him and I hope you enjoy your stay here!
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Hi <3
Dec 24, 2012 18:49:49 GMT -5
Post by pitbulllady on Dec 24, 2012 18:49:49 GMT -5
I second what Minty already said, Ashley-welcome to the board, but few if any of us here consider a Randall to be a "villain". He's no saint, to be sure, but most of us can readily understand why he did what he did, and it wasn't because he was "mean" or "evil", either. Randall was very much a victim of circumstances that were largely beyond his control. He didn't have much of a choice, honestly, or rather, he was choosing between doing some awful things and having some really awful things done to HIM, considering how the REAL villain, the real mastermind-Waternoose-treated people he actually LIKED(or pretended to, anyway). To me, a "villain" is the mastermind, the one in charge, the one who instigates the nefarious plot, and that would be Waternoose. Randall was very much just a henchman, if you will. If I were to list a group of Disney/Pixar villains, names like Ursula, Jafar, Syndrome, Hades, or the witch from Snow White come to mind. These were the ones calling the shots, so to speak, and answered only to themselves as far as anyone can tell. Randall was directly controlled by Henry J. Waternoose, who was not one to take kindly to insubordination.
pitbulllady
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Hi <3
Dec 24, 2012 22:34:59 GMT -5
Post by purplelove on Dec 24, 2012 22:34:59 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I didn't mean that he's totally evil or anything, I guess I was just referring to him how I figured most movie goers would see him. Sorry bout that . I personally enjoyed the scene where he beats up Sully because I kinda think Sully had it coming being that he was so richardy about being at the top all the time.
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 0:15:44 GMT -5
Post by mintygreen on Dec 25, 2012 0:15:44 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I didn't mean that he's totally evil or anything, I guess I was just referring to him how I figured most movie goers would see him. Sorry bout that . I personally enjoyed the scene where he beats up Sully because I kinda think Sully had it coming being that he was so richardy about being at the top all the time. It's fine. XD You don't have to be sorry. I think I first considered him a villain when I first saw the movie myself....back when I was 17 when it came out....until I thought a little more into it and noticed things that were really unfair to him. And honestly if some fans do still want to see him as a villain, that is up to them. I just like to explain why I don't really see him that way is all. XD Anyway, as for Randall beating Sulley up....well I don't really think beating anyone up is a 'good' thing really but the movie acts like Sulley and Mike were such good guys in that respect when they weren't exactly much nicer than Randall because Mike called Randall "Lizard Boy" a few times, even at the beginning of the movie before anything crazy went down. It was clearly meant to be an insult directed at Randall. And I remember near the end of the film Mike also slams a door on Randall's fronds and says "I hope that hurt, lizard boy!" Dishing out physical damage on someone and ENJOYING it is really never a 'nice' thing and it's just a fact that it wasn't only Randall who physically assaulted someone in the movie. If I ever end up slamming a door on someone to get away from them...well....it happens when you are trying to get away from someone....but I don't think I would personally enjoy doing it. I hope I never have to at any point in my life, honestly. It also sucks that even though Waternoose was really the true bad guy in the film pulling the strings at the top, Randall got a worse fate. Waternoose went to jail, Randall got banished to some place where he got attacked with a shovel and where by we aren't even sure if he's still alive....and there was no reason for Mike and Sulley to do that to him other than out of revenge because when they threw him in there they had already captured/restrained him, so why couldn't they at least wait until authorities got there? At least then Randall could have gotten a fair trial like Waternoose or whatever.....but Randall never got treated fairly in a lot of respects in the film. I second what Minty already said, Ashley-welcome to the board, but few if any of us here consider a Randall to be a "villain". He's no saint, to be sure, but most of us can readily understand why he did what he did, and it wasn't because he was "mean" or "evil", either. Randall was very much a victim of circumstances that were largely beyond his control. He didn't have much of a choice, honestly, or rather, he was choosing between doing some awful things and having some really awful things done to HIM, considering how the REAL villain, the real mastermind-Waternoose-treated people he actually LIKED(or pretended to, anyway). To me, a "villain" is the mastermind, the one in charge, the one who instigates the nefarious plot, and that would be Waternoose. Randall was very much just a henchman, if you will. If I were to list a group of Disney/Pixar villains, names like Ursula, Jafar, Syndrome, Hades, or the witch from Snow White come to mind. These were the ones calling the shots, so to speak, and answered only to themselves as far as anyone can tell. Randall was directly controlled by Henry J. Waternoose, who was not one to take kindly to insubordination. pitbulllady Yeah the henchmen of the top villains often really don't have much of a choice than to obey.....they are kind of like slaves since mastermind villains are not like your typical boss or person you answer to. You face really really bad consequences if you don't listen to them.
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 8:11:31 GMT -5
Post by lizardgirl on Dec 25, 2012 8:11:31 GMT -5
Welcome to the boards, Ashley! I agree with what the others have said, though to be fair, the film doesn't make it glaringly obvious that Randall is a 'henchman'. Sure, there are moments later on in the film when it becomes clear (Waternoose ordering Randall to go get Sulley and Mike just after Randall was knocked out comes to mind) but the audience does spend a fair bit of the movie assuming Randall to be the 'main' villain, and even when it is revealed that he isn't, it's not like the focus shifts immediately to Waternoose- there's still the whole door chase and so on, and so I can completely understand why so many people think of Randall as a villain. (Not saying you in particular, but just in general. ) And yes, I think I can speak on behalf of everyone here that we, too, are all very excited about getting to see him again in MU. Squeeee!
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 17:16:53 GMT -5
Post by mintygreen on Dec 25, 2012 17:16:53 GMT -5
Welcome to the boards, Ashley! I agree with what the others have said, though to be fair, the film doesn't make it glaringly obvious that Randall is a 'henchman'. Sure, there are moments later on in the film when it becomes clear (Waternoose ordering Randall to go get Sulley and Mike just after Randall was knocked out comes to mind) but the audience does spend a fair bit of the movie assuming Randall to be the 'main' villain, and even when it is revealed that he isn't, it's not like the focus shifts immediately to Waternoose- there's still the whole door chase and so on, and so I can completely understand why so many people think of Randall as a villain. (Not saying you in particular, but just in general. ) And yes, I think I can speak on behalf of everyone here that we, too, are all very excited about getting to see him again in MU. Squeeee! Yeah I was actually just thinking about this earlier.....a lot of people end up seeing Randall as the main villain simply because this film is one of those rarer cases where they actually feature a henchman more than they do the main villain.
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 18:36:21 GMT -5
Post by pitbulllady on Dec 25, 2012 18:36:21 GMT -5
Welcome to the boards, Ashley! I agree with what the others have said, though to be fair, the film doesn't make it glaringly obvious that Randall is a 'henchman'. Sure, there are moments later on in the film when it becomes clear (Waternoose ordering Randall to go get Sulley and Mike just after Randall was knocked out comes to mind) but the audience does spend a fair bit of the movie assuming Randall to be the 'main' villain, and even when it is revealed that he isn't, it's not like the focus shifts immediately to Waternoose- there's still the whole door chase and so on, and so I can completely understand why so many people think of Randall as a villain. (Not saying you in particular, but just in general. ) And yes, I think I can speak on behalf of everyone here that we, too, are all very excited about getting to see him again in MU. Squeeee! Yeah I was actually just thinking about this earlier.....a lot of people end up seeing Randall as the main villain simply because this film is one of those rarer cases where they actually feature a henchman more than they do the main villain. AND, while I know that there are people who adamantly disagree with me on this, the fact that Randall is scaly and reptile-like DOES play a big part in how many people perceive him! So many people dislike, or even outright hate, reptiles, that even just seeing Randall, not knowing what he was doing or how he behaved, was enough to convince them that he was bad. I know one of the former members here actually left the board due to my insistence on this point, which she refused to believe, and in fact she refused to believe that people in general have ANY fear or dislike of reptiles, no more so than they have for cats, dogs, bunny rabbits, etc., which is ludicrous. My calling out the cowards on Deviant Art who kill snakes and lizards out of such spite and hate/fear, and then post their bloody, mutilated bodies accompanied by boasts as though they'd saved the world actually made some folks leave this board because they saw nothing wrong with people doing that to a defenseless animal, or anything wrong with hating something that badly simply because it wasn't furry. Even TVTropes.com has a category, "Reptiles Are Abhorrent" for a reason, because that's how many people feel, and many movie and tv studios capitalize on that. This, coupled with the fact that Randall is the one who actually has to "get his hands dirty" in directly dealing with the protagonist, Sulley, firmly cements in most people's mindsets that he, rather than Waternoose, is the primary villain. Waternoose mostly just orders others around but only gets physical himself after Randall has been eliminated, and he's clearly used to using others to do his dirty work so he will come off smelling like a rose. This obviously wasn't the first time he'd done that either; he had a lot of experience with this sort of underhandedness, and who knows how many bodies, both literal and figurative, lay around due to him and his family, but he'd been raised knowing how to cover his tracks and how to keep those around him who were expendable, on whom blame could always be put when things didn't go as planned. Randall was one of those individuals. I even recently saw a "Disney Villains" Wiki in which it's stated that RANDALL hired WATERNOOSE...yes, a Scarer, a mere employee not even near the top of the corporate "totem pole", hiring the freakin' CEO of a large company! I mean, how asinine is THAT? That would be even more absurd than ME, a teacher who brings home less than 30k per year, hiring the state's Superintendent of Education to do something illegal for MY benefit! People are still willing to believe that, though, that Randall was in charge of this powerful CEO, forgetting such lines as Waternoose telling Randall, "I never should have trusted YOU with this"! pitbulllady
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 22:43:10 GMT -5
Post by mintygreen on Dec 25, 2012 22:43:10 GMT -5
You are right, PBL, that's another point. A lot of people naturally hate reptiles/anything that looks like a reptile.
I'm glad I never have at any point in time. I was playing with little lizards as a child when my family would visit Florida. I would catch them but then release them. Never was afraid of them, never did find them ugly or repulsive. Infact as a child my mother bought me a lizard pin(I have 2 now - I bought one myself recently too) but she bought me one as a child because I would often talk about some lizard apparently.
That's insane that some Disney Wiki said that Randall hired Waternoose. lol. That is so far out. lol.
Anyway, I'm very disturbed by people who kill reptiles for the sake of killing them, simply because they don't like them, and then post pictures online. I haven't come across a lot of it because I think I'd get too depressed if I saw a lot of that stuff....but it definitely sickens me that people do that.
And honestly, even if you do, for some reason, hate some specific kind of animal....that doesn't mean it has no right to exist in this world.
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 23:16:42 GMT -5
Post by purplelove on Dec 25, 2012 23:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah that is an interesting point. And also Randall is not the first reptile in a Disney movie to be shown negatively, I remember there were both snakes in The Jungle Book and the cartoon version of Robin Hood where the snakes were bad or working with the main villain. There's probably more then that but they are the ones that first come to my mind.
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 23:23:46 GMT -5
Post by mintygreen on Dec 25, 2012 23:23:46 GMT -5
Yeah that is an interesting point. And also Randall is not the first reptile in a Disney movie to be shown negatively, I remember there were both snakes in The Jungle Book and the cartoon version of Robin Hood where the snakes were bad or working with the main villain. There's probably more then that but they are the ones that first come to my mind. Also the crocodile in Peter Pan.....it's not like a crocodile spends it's life just waiting to eat someone....but they have the one in Peter Pan do that.
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Hi <3
Dec 25, 2012 23:54:59 GMT -5
Post by pitbulllady on Dec 25, 2012 23:54:59 GMT -5
Yeah that is an interesting point. And also Randall is not the first reptile in a Disney movie to be shown negatively, I remember there were both snakes in The Jungle Book and the cartoon version of Robin Hood where the snakes were bad or working with the main villain. There's probably more then that but they are the ones that first come to my mind. I think that the villainesses in both The Rescuers movies had reptiles as minions, alligators in the first one and a monitor lizard in the second "Down Under" version, so again, reptiles were associated with someone bad. Even though Randall is not biologically a reptile, as he has to be endothermic, he's still scaly and has a lot of physical characteristics that are associated with snakes and some lizards, like the forked tongue and sharp teeth and his ability to cling to walls and constrict, so those things alone are going to make a lot of people hate him, no matter what he does. pitbulllady
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Hi <3
Dec 26, 2012 2:38:17 GMT -5
Post by mintygreen on Dec 26, 2012 2:38:17 GMT -5
Yeah that is an interesting point. And also Randall is not the first reptile in a Disney movie to be shown negatively, I remember there were both snakes in The Jungle Book and the cartoon version of Robin Hood where the snakes were bad or working with the main villain. There's probably more then that but they are the ones that first come to my mind. I think that the villainesses in both The Rescuers movies had reptiles as minions, alligators in the first one and a monitor lizard in the second "Down Under" version, so again, reptiles were associated with someone bad. Even though Randall is not biologically a reptile, as he has to be endothermic, he's still scaly and has a lot of physical characteristics that are associated with snakes and some lizards, like the forked tongue and sharp teeth and his ability to cling to walls and constrict, so those things alone are going to make a lot of people hate him, no matter what he does. pitbulllady ^ And the changing colour thing too, like a chameleon. Also, I remember that monitor lizard! She was actually my fav character in that movie when I was a little girl. It's been a long time since I saw it. Her owner, the villain, was not very nice to her at points, from what I remember. disney.wikia.com/wiki/Joanna_the_GoannaIt looks like under character affiliations though it says "Bad, later good" so I guess the character became associated with the good side at some point? I really remember next to nothing about the movie though. I probably haven't seen it for at least 15 years. EDIT: Looking around that site, I just remembered that there was also a lizard in that movie that was associated with the 'good guy' side right from the beginning though: disney.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_(The_Rescuers_Down_Under)
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