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Post by mentalguru on Jan 3, 2011 17:12:25 GMT -5
Here's the thread on Pixar Planet, if interested. Apparently new information but there are doubts. pixarplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7854I have doubts myself but if it IS a red herring of some kind (a delibrate one?)... well the line about enemies becoming friends would be interesting no matter which characters are involved (even if they say it's for Mike and Sulley really rather than Sulley and Randall which would still be more interesting- if it's a red herring and all... perhaps some hope there? I don't even know.). I more or less will repeat a bit of what I said there: extended canon information or extra information not in the original movie should not be considered sacrosant, considering how many times they conflict anyway (whether with the movie or each other), and also personal concerns that I think there are several plot holes which could result from this if the premise turns out this is Mike and Sulley first meeting. (Since of course we already know even just from the movie alone they've known each other from the 4th grade, at the very least even if we ignore anything OTHER than the movie). There's a chance with more information (IF it's true at all, but I have my doubts), it might actually still fit the original movie and its material- but it would take some stretching unless I'm jumping to conclusions too much here. Randall seems unlikely to appear given that it's a university setting for these two if they are students in any case, though maybe janitorial work will actually be made canon? (But it.. may be a bit contrived to show Randall in a setting which is not the factory in a prequel where Sulley and Mike are the focus). All that would seem weird unless they did some little cameo with him as a kid (what... have Sulley take a wrong turn and end up in a school yard? Weird.) in the student idea, or say retcon the idea of him being a trainer (after all it is NOT movie information in the original) and have him train WITH them but I guess... a prequel is better than a SEQUEL where he's not mentioned at all (looks bad for Sulley considering what happened) or a sequel where he's only brought in for revenge (tm) and nothing more is added to his story or character. I maintain my doubts over the idea of this actually being true but I guess a prequel really IS possible and I suppose considering the multiple things they could do in a sequel perhaps they would decide on a prequel- thinking in whatever way they do a sequel, someone isn't going to be pleased (what with the various ways people view Randall, if they look at fandom at all in any case) and heck there's multiple ways in which the Boo premise could mean that a TRILOGY would actually work for them or something they'd need to fit all the possibilities they have. So no Boo. Probably/possibly no Randall. Maybe a prequel. But I have my doubts over whether it's true or not. But if it is, maybe that's okay and might even be just as well. But some of the points few as they are I already see having problems in fitting with the original movie. But maybe I'll be eating my words as I've said in the thread in PP.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jan 3, 2011 17:26:11 GMT -5
As I said over on PP, I HOPE this is just a rumor started by someone failed attempt at fanfiction, because it really sucks. It totally flies in the face of established canon from both the movie and accompanying NON-fiction books, in which it has been stated that Mike and Sulley met back in Kindergarten, and of course, we here Mike actually say that Sulley has been "jealous of him since the fourth grade". It also ignores the large and active fanbases of two major characters from the original, Randall and Boo, since unless they go against the established canon of Randall being younger than Mike and Sulley(and probably show him as the school bully, no doubt) and ignore Boo totally, there's no way to work them into such a scenario. AND, if that wasn't bad enough, the whole "monsters going to school to learn how to scare humans" was the exact premise of the Nicktoon, "AHHH! Real Monsters", to which some people have already compared the original, despite major differences there. Now, those people will have a legit reason to make that claim that Pixar is ripping off Nickleodeon! This just sounds incredibly lame, and I'm hoping it's no more than a rumor.
pitbulllady
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Post by mentalguru on Jan 3, 2011 17:43:05 GMT -5
I don't get how it would fit precisely, and it... doesn't sound all that interesting beyond the idea of former enemies becoming friends but...
I always thought they were already friends, before such a time as when they get jobs/go to whatever other education is not mandatory. I'm guessing they CAN ignore anything NOT in the movie including the book no matter what status it's been granted (not everyone has access or would be bothered to try an access such information). But... they've known each other since the fourth grade. That's canon in the actual MOVIE. They could ignore the kindergarten idea I guess though but...
See this is however why there also has to be a rule where the original movie canon supercedes the movies produced after it if there's conflict too.
Unless say they were friends, then 'broke up' in some regard for years but... I think that would be a rather forced thing to do. Pointless drama for pointless drama's sake. Plus Mike's line... I got the impression they'd been together forever, fights? Sure maybe the odd time, but probably not grudges which lasted years from say high-school until they met up again. I mean Mike can indeed hold a grudge but... pointless. It seems absolutely pointless.
I'll admit I've never seen that show (Aaaah! Real Monsters) myself, wasn't ever that interested but you raise a point if that's true.
I think it's better than the senario where in an actual sequel where we hear no Randall or alternatively have him in a way where he's only out for revenge and nothing else is added to him but...
Yeah. I'm not entirely enthusiastic. But this is more me thinking, ".... it could be worse, but, at least they're not crushing all dreams of the possible future but... it could be better. It could be a movie far better than the original, and I'll be thinking of this wasted opportunity as I watch it."
To use an analogy, a prequel with no Randall (since shoehorning in would seem way too convenient and silly probably) versus a bad sequel it's sort of like the difference between having the car covered with graffiti and being completely smashed in the bad sequels case I guess in my view, I'm not exactly happy at all but if I had to choose..., though a part of me is wondering, is it a red herring, and even if it isn't completely maybe it can... somehow work?
I'm not exactly optimistic, but I'm doubtful it's true anyway so...
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jan 3, 2011 18:57:40 GMT -5
One word. Flashbacks.
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NellyTheWitch
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
The shy and gentle witch
Posts: 60
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Post by NellyTheWitch on Jan 5, 2011 16:17:01 GMT -5
I totally agree with pitbulllady,and I say:if Monsters,Inc. 2 will be something like a prequel,I'm sure that will suck!I can't watch a movie like that...but don't you think this rumor is only saying they will do an animated series?because a "sequel-prequel" is impossible!In a sequel the story goes after the end of the first movie,or not?
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Post by pitbulllady on Jan 5, 2011 17:16:33 GMT -5
I totally agree with pitbulllady,and I say:if Monsters,Inc. 2 will be something like a prequel,I'm sure that will suck!I can't watch a movie like that...but don't you think this rumor is only saying they will do an animated series?because a "sequel-prequel" is impossible!In a sequel the story goes after the end of the first movie,or not? A "prequel" shows events that take place BEFORE the original movie, while a "sequel" shows what happened AFTER the events of the original movie. MOST movies which have an original, followed by a prequel, are often trilogies, which means that after they show the prequel to explain why things happened in the original, there's usually a sequel to follow up. In the case of Monsters, Inc., it has already been established as canon that Mike and Sulley were friends since early childhood, and that they are likely much older than Randall in the original movie, yet I'd bet that IF Randall appears in the prequel(assuming there is any truth to its existance), he will likely just be typecast as the snobby school bully who torments poor, dear Mike and Sulley for no reason, establishing that animosity between them, which again, flies in the face of canon. It also goes against reason and logic, unless they also show WHY Randall turned to bullying, since most bullies are themselves victims of bullying. To simply say that Randall was born mean and does bad things to others for no reason at all other than his own sadistic pleasure makes no sense, none. It also does nothing at all to redeem SULLEY and MIKE, in terms of their playing the role of vigilantes. With regards to "prequel" vs. "flashbacks", there is a big difference there, too. "Flashbacks" show scenes of events that a character is recalling from the past, but take place in the present, or logical sequence, of the original, which means that if say, Sulley is remembering something that happened from his academy days, but he is actually living in 2012 and most of the movie takes place AFTER the original, THAT is a flashback. A prequel would take place entirely prior to the events of the original movie. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jan 5, 2011 19:04:12 GMT -5
*sighs* I know what a Flashback and a Prequel is. What I was getting at is that hopefully this sequel will NOT be a prequel, but instead be a true second part, and that the prequel rumors, true or not, refer to the flashbacks IN that sequel.
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Post by pitbulllady on Jan 5, 2011 20:44:47 GMT -5
*sighs* I know what a Flashback and a Prequel is. What I was getting at is that hopefully this sequel will NOT be a prequel, but instead be a true second part, and that the prequel rumors, true or not, refer to the flashbacks IN that sequel. OK, gotcha. Misunderstood your first statement, and yes, seeing flashbacks that would explain why something happened in the original, or why someone acted the way they did in the original, showing events that took place before those of the original, WOULD be much better, in the context of the next movie being set AFTER the original. Sorta like Good Wilt Hunting explained why Wilt was an amputee and blind in one eye and why he was so paranoid about disapointing others. But STILL, if the plot of the flashbacks involves things that go very much against established canon, it still would not make sense, unless it's shown from some character's rather skewed perspective. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Jan 5, 2011 22:09:41 GMT -5
*blinks* Wow...uhh...thanks...thanks for the understanding Pitbulllady. That was nice.
Personally, here's how I would plan the opening of M.I. 2. With the discussion of Waternoose's trial. A news report perhaps. In it, we're given a summary of events that happened in M.I., basically setting things up. Not a flashback per-say, but part of the actual events.
Now as for those flashbacks. Those would be REALLY helpful, in terms for Randall.
Now WAZOWSKI having a flashback? Man, talk about rewriting history.
Sullivan, on the other-hand would be more honest. Perhaps in his exhaustion of working as CEO he begins to think of "better days". Part of M.I. 2 could be a reflection on one's self. I mean when you honestly think about it, allot of changes have/will happen. Sullivan was a regular joe, now CEO. Wazowski, a person you'd think was a "there then gone" type, might actually settle down with somebody, Celia. And Randall, well we all know him.
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Post by mentalguru on Jan 18, 2011 3:29:08 GMT -5
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Post by mentalguru on Apr 7, 2011 13:31:20 GMT -5
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Post by lizardgirl on May 15, 2011 9:55:15 GMT -5
Just looking at the IMDb entry for Monsters, University, and it would appear that Randall is indeed returning, along with Celia and Fungus.
I don't know how they're going to make this work, but apparently it's happening...
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Post by pitbulllady on May 15, 2011 10:18:12 GMT -5
Just looking at the IMDb entry for Monsters, University, and it would appear that Randall is indeed returning, along with Celia and Fungus. I don't know how they're going to make this work, but apparently it's happening... I don't know how they can make it work, either, not in a GOOD way, anyway. Pixar will pretty much have to throw out established canon, either that or have Monster World universities be a lot different from ours, where most students are more or less of the same age. The bad thing is, I'm pretty sure that insofar as Randall is concerned, he's going to be portrayed in a very negative light, as a life-long bully and all-around bad guy, who always has been bad and always will be bad and who will no doubt get some awful comeuppance at the end of the movie. It will really be an insult, honestly, if they do go that route, much worse than if they left Randall out completely and never even mention him. It's like they are aware that he has many fans who'd love to see him return, but they either assume we're all idiots who simply want to see him for the sake of seeing him, regardless of his role, OR they are deliberately trying to tell us that we've all been wrong and have been horribly stupid to think that someone like Randall could have ever been capable of being good. He's either going to be put in there as a token , a sort of Pixarish way of saying, "OK, you morons, here he is-happy now?" or as their way of saying, "See, we told you idiots that he was evil all along, so here's proof, now shut up and get lost! We don't need you!" I really, really hope I'm wrong on both accounts, but the more I read about this prequel, the more negatively I feel about the outcome. I know some people have accused me of being too pessimistic, and to them I say, show me evidence that Randall's role will NOT be negative; give me ONE reason to assume the best-case scenario! Yes, I'm old and cynical, but that's based on a half-century of experience, folks. That enthusiasm and hopefullness of my youth faded a long time ago. I've learned to expect the worst, so when the worst DOESN'T happen, at least I can feel pleasantly surprised, and when it DOES happen, then I'm not so terribly disappointed because that was what I had expected in the first place. I still have the tiniest shred of hope that Pixar will wind up pleasantly surprising me, but that hope gets smaller and smaller every time new news about the prequel comes out. We already know that Randall wound up in the Human World, being brutally beaten with a shovel in the original, so why expect anything good to happen to him in the prequel? The ONLY way I can see any good coming of it at all is if the movie jumps from the past to the present, rather than being set totally in the past, before Mike and Sulley and Randall and the others came to work for MI, and it perhaps establishes that there was actually a friendship between Randall and at least one of the others, Mike or Sulley, and shows how that friendship deteriorated while the one between Mike and Sulley grew. That can be used in the present to establish guilt on the part of whoever had once been Randall's friend, leading to his eventual rescue and reconciliation, but I doubt Pixar will be insightful enough to pull a Dreamworks and actually show that people usually become "bad" because of how they've been treated, and that it's never too late to change for the better. They've never really done that before, so I doubt they'd start now. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 15, 2011 17:56:19 GMT -5
"Expect the Worst, Hope for Nothing" eh?
One thing to take into consideration is that this is Pixar's first prequel...their track-record with sequels is well...hmm...unsure really...but I think they've done pretty well for them. Now that begs the question...would this spur Pixar to make this a best-first-work? Afterall if this first prequel sucks, then others could say any future prequels they do will suck. So would this encourage them to refine the story and make something unique out of it? Maybe so, considering they pushed back the release date (Morely the first time, where it was originally to be in 2012 and now 2013. The second move was mainly for competitiveness with Twilight).
As far as Randall's concern...who knows. *shrugs* Steve Buscemi at least understands Randall...and since he's being invited BACK...hopefully concession or two will be made. Sure with all the buzz about Randall coming up about the sequel, he'll hopefully look on with interest. Either in the "Ok...does anybody even REMEMBER this?" way or "Ok...lets see what people are saying about it".
*rubs temple* A good I can see coming from this is a virtual understanding on Randall's part. While there is a grand possibility of multiple canon follies here...I'm hoping Randall's there merely on loan as...I dunno...temp or something? But anyways...hopefully they WON'T portray him as a bully or anything, because that would be wrong on so many levels. For one, Randall's a dedicate and a hard worker. There's PLENTY of cheaters in any educational system, so yeah we probably WOULD see his distaste for that, but wouldn't make him a bad guy. I mean to portray him as a bully (who generally don't do their work and cheat), would just be...well...plain stupid.
What I'm hoping is that at least SOMETHING portrays to how he acts......well strip away the fact that the Scream Extractor certainly isn't going on at the time...and you'd have Randall as he regularly was. Perhaps, hopefully, they'll show SOMETHING that lends to his past. Afterall, he's the only person that DOESN'T have any past info. Roz...in a beauty pageant? What kind of info is THAT to state? 0_0 Still, info. Waternoose? Well his father/grandfather Floyd and when he took over the company. Sullivan? Armchair and high simulator scores, not to mention family traits. Wazowski? His mom. Celia? Well...her and Waozwski's relationship and that her mother doesn't exactly..."like men" Randall? Zip.
I can't really be judgmental myself, too many unknowns at this time. Can only wait and see.
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Post by pitbulllady on May 15, 2011 21:32:36 GMT -5
"Expect the Worst, Hope for Nothing" eh? One thing to take into consideration is that this is Pixar's first prequel...their track-record with sequels is well...hmm...unsure really...but I think they've done pretty well for them. Now that begs the question...would this spur Pixar to make this a best-first-work? After All if this first prequel sucks, then others could say any future prequels they do will suck. So would this encourage them to refine the story and make something unique out of it? Maybe so, considering they pushed back the release date (Morely the first time, where it was originally to be in 2012 and now 2013. The second move was mainly for competitiveness with Twilight). As far as Randall's concern...who knows. *shrugs* Steve Buscemi at least understands Randall...and since he's being invited BACK...hopefully concession or two will be made. Sure with all the buzz about Randall coming up about the sequel, he'll hopefully look on with interest. Either in the "Ok...does anybody even REMEMBER this?" way or "Ok...lets see what people are saying about it". *rubs temple* A good I can see coming from this is a virtual understanding on Randall's part. While there is a grand possibility of multiple canon follies here...I'm hoping Randall's there merely on loan as...I dunno...temp or something? But anyways...hopefully they WON'T portray him as a bully or anything, because that would be wrong on so many levels. For one, Randall's a dedicate and a hard worker. There's PLENTY of cheaters in any educational system, so yeah we probably WOULD see his distaste for that, but wouldn't make him a bad guy. I mean to portray him as a bully (who generally don't do their work and cheat), would just be...well...plain stupid. What I'm hoping is that at least SOMETHING portrays to how he acts......well strip away the fact that the Scream Extractor certainly isn't going on at the time...and you'd have Randall as he regularly was. Perhaps, hopefully, they'll show SOMETHING that lends to his past. Afterall, he's the only person that DOESN'T have any past info. Roz...in a beauty pageant? What kind of info is THAT to state? 0_0 Still, info. Waternoose? Well his father/grandfather Floyd and when he took over the company. Sullivan? Armchair and high simulator scores, not to mention family traits. Wazowski? His mom. Celia? Well...her and Waozwski's relationship and that her mother doesn't exactly..."like men" Randall? Zip. I can't really be judgmental myself, too many unknowns at this time. Can only wait and see. Yes, there ARE a LOT of unknowns with this, and with the release date having been moved up from 2012 to 2013, that will at least give them a bit more time to "tweak" plots and such, to see what works, and what doesn't. I'm still not holding out much hope for a good portrayal of Randall, though. The question is, does Pixar see him the way WE see him, or do they insist that he is just another flat, 2-dimensional "villain" who exists only to make Sullivan and Wazowski look good? Given that "cheating" is so deeply associated with Randall due to Wazowski's error in the first movie, it's logical that Pixar will try to show him as someone who cheated through college to get his job, even though logic says otherwise. Pixar knows that they can throw logic out the door and people will STILL flock to see their movie and rave about how great it is, simply because they're Pixar. The Emperor. Naturally the Emperor's new clothes MUST look great, because he's wearing them, right? They have the attitude that they can do anything and people will still love it and won't question its sensibilities. Pixar is obviously aware that Randall is a popular character, otherwise they wouldn't bother bringing him back for another movie, prequel or not. We already know what happened to him, more or less, from the original, and as has been pointed out, they've never reused antagonists, ever. BUT, as you yourself pointed out, they've never done a prequel, either, so it's kinda like new territory with no prior precedence to compare to. They've acknowledged that Randall has a lot of fans, but the thing is, do they want to cater to the "I want Randall to be evil" fans, or the "I want Randall to show his good side" fans? Are they simply bringing him back, perhaps just a brief cameo, to say, "OK, here he is-happy now?" or perhaps, as I said earlier, to show him as completely awful as a way of rubbing our noses in it, figuring they can just finally write us off for good and be done with our begging and whining? I'd love to think that Pixar to too good for that, that they're above that, but honestly, given the total lack of communication from them, in spite of our numerous letters, petitions, etc., I don't know. And I'm not going to put a lot of optimism into this. Given how they react to anyone posting anything remotely critical or questioning on their Facebook site, I really think that they've gotten such a case of the "big head" that they really do believe they don't need us, or any group of fans, for that matter. pitbulllady
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