What would actually happen to him?

[tmazanec1]

Suppose Randall has some catalytic experience (like Hurricane Katrina) and reforms. Suppose next that he finds his way back to the Monster World. What would be in store for him? He attempted mass kidnapping and murder, and was an accomplice in Mike and Sully's illegal banishment to the Himalayas (which were just as illicit as his own banishment to Louisiana). He did so under the duress of his boss, but he still did them. If the Monster justice system parallels our own, what fate lies in store for him?

[RandallBoggs]

*awaits Pitbulllady's New Orleans response*

Uhh...as for the legal issues. If Ran DOES get convicted of THOSE crimes...Sullivan and Wazowski better darn get convicted of THEIRS too.
Of course, there's a few silver linings for Randall in this aspect:
1. Given the time of the new film (or ours ^_-), it's obviously got to be a year again. Another year and Ran would be "legally" dead. And you can't convict a dead guy ^0^
2. Roz and the C.D.A. "shut the case" as it were in Randall's sense, as Sullivan, Wazowski, AND Fungus, didn't get convicted themselves.
3. Even if Randall WAS pushed up on those charges, he's have plenty of physical proof for where he was. Especially if the C.D.A. detectors show he's had close proximity to humans. THAT, and I DOUBT Sullivan will openly lie when Randall points the finger at him, in public.
4. Randall's ability to help convict Waternoose ALSO would lessen whatever punishment HE would get. But as said with the above, Randall's already recieved "vigiliante" justice

[pitbulllady]

Jun 12, 2009 23:32:43 GMT -5 tmazanec1 said:

Suppose Randall has some catalytic experience (like Hurricane Katrina) and reforms. Suppose next that he finds his way back to the Monster World. What would be in store for him? He attempted mass kidnapping and murder, and was an accomplice in Mike and Sully's illegal banishment to the Himalayas (which were just as illicit as his own banishment to Louisiana). He did so under the duress of his boss, but he still did them. If the Monster justice system parallels our own, what fate lies in store for him?

Like Sean said, the BIG deciding factor in Randall's fate is how badly he suffered at the hands of humans while in our world, as this could be seen as punishment enough, especially given that he received no due process under the law. A lot would also depend on the outcome of Waternoose's trial, and it is certainly NOT out of the question that Waternoose could go free; in fact, it's quite likely, actually. Mike's videotaped evidence would likely be thrown out as "entrapment", and that is the main evidence against Waternoose's involvement. The one witness who would have had the most knowledge, first-hand, and for the duration of the "project", would have been Randall, and without his testimony, a good legal defense team could have had a mistrial declared. Of course, IF, by the time Randall returns, the governmental powers in the Monster World's version of the USA have recognized that human children are NOT toxic, then the laws against bringing them into the Monster World would pretty much become null and void, and THAT law was actually the most serious one which Randall broke, or rather, conspired to break. While he did attack Mike and Sulley, no permanent or serious harm came to either, and apparently neither sought medical help afterwards, so proving this, years after the fact, would be difficult at best, and again, given what happened to Randall, he'd have just as likely a case against THEM, should he wish to press charges. If he is tried and convicted of Assault and Battery of a High and Aggravated Nature, which is about the worst, outside of the Bringing In Human Child, that he can be charged with, he could get a suspended sentence due to what he'd already been through, or have to just pay a fine or do community service, but for that particular crime, it often does depend on the plaintiff's willingness to go through with charges, too. If Sulley decides not to push the issue, and can convince Mike not to, or he cannot provide enough proof, then charges could be dropped completely. If Randall returns BEFORE Waternoose's trial, his testimony would be a key to getting a conviction, and most likely, the attorneys would request a plea bargain, if not an outright dropping of all charges against Randall, in exchange for his testimony as a "hostile witness" againt Waternoose, something I'm sure he'd have no problem providing them with. At the worst, Randall might face a few months in jail, but I doubt he'd receive banishment, not since it's been made known that children aren't toxic.
"Kidnapping", by the way, would NOT apply to a human child, although Randall did nab Mike, it was not intended.

pitbulllady

[RandallBoggs]

*nods* In reality, if Randall returned, he could point the judgmental finger at both of them, get THEM tried, while at the same time being a witness to Waternoose's trial. Though I would think Randall would do the later first, since Sullivan and Wazowski were also key witnesses.
Of course *shrugs* Lawsuits make for a less-interesting sequel 0_0

*folds arms* Which is why that anything happens to Randall and not to Sullivan and Wazowski, it becomes clear that these two can B&E (points at Pitbulllady ^_-), cause panic (they brought the kid and kept her), intent to murder, supressing info (in regards to Randall), etc. Heck. These guys could murder someone in town square and get away with it Ran comes back and puts THEM on trial, something he didn't get, and THAT would be justice ;D

[pitbulllady]

Jun 13, 2009 0:07:36 GMT -5 RandallBoggs said:

*nods* In reality, if Randall returned, he could point the judgmental finger at both of them, get THEM tried, while at the same time being a witness to Waternoose's trial. Though I would think Randall would do the later first, since Sullivan and Wazowski were also key witnesses.
Of course *shrugs* Lawsuits make for a less-interesting sequel 0_0

*folds arms* Which is why that anything happens to Randall and not to Sullivan and Wazowski, it becomes clear that these two can B&E (points at Pitbulllady ^_-), cause panic (they brought the kid and kept her), intent to murder, supressing info (in regards to Randall), etc. Heck. These guys could murder someone in town square and get away with it Ran comes back and puts THEM on trial, something he didn't get, and THAT would be justice ;D

Yeah, you've got a good point with regards to "Pixar reality" vs. common-sense reality there. We have already seen Mike and Sulley break several laws, not just in the movie, but in the canon Disney Adventures comics, as well. They did, as you mentioned, break into Randall's HOUSE and commit Assault and Battery on HIM while he was sleeping, and it was supposed to be funny! They also publicly threatened HIM with physical violence-which would be considered Assault-at work, and got by with it. In the movie, they were just as guilty of Attempted Murder as Randall, not to mention that SULLEY, not Randall, actually brought the child in, AND concealed her whereabouts. They also participated in a wide-spread cover-up as to what happened to Randall, which involves Conspiracy to Conceal the True Nature of a Crime, one which, in this case, also involved a government agency! Like you said, though, Sulley and Mike could probably have publicly tortured and hung Randall right there in the lobby, and no one would have touched them, because we're supposed to believe that they are such great heroes that they can absolutely do no wrong, that anything they do has to be acceptable and is justified.

pitbulllady

[tmazanec1]

This might be good info for fanfics based more on "common sense" reality, though.
Would Randall have any problems if he were convicted of any crimes, even if he got off on "time served" in the human world? Like getting a job, an apartment, a car, credit, having his address and photo on the internet, and other things that criminals who have "paid their debt to society" still seem to have?

[pitbulllady]

Jun 13, 2009 13:29:19 GMT -5 tmazanec1 said:

This might be good info for fanfics based more on "common sense" reality, though.
Would Randall have any problems if he were convicted of any crimes, even if he got off on "time served" in the human world? Like getting a job, an apartment, a car, credit, having his address and photo on the internet, and other things that criminals who have "paid their debt to society" still seem to have?

That depends on whether he's convicted of felony charges, or of misdemenors. Of the charges, like I said, the most serious of those would have been Conspiracy to Import Human Children, but again, even that would depend on whether Randall was able to testify against his former boss in time, and the opinions of a judge or jury...plus how good a defense attorney he had. If he gets lucky, and gets a jury and judge who is sympathetic with him due what he's already suffered, the charges could easily be reduced, if not dropped completely in light of the discovery that there was no real threat from human children all along. Most states do not allow a person to be tried and convicted under a law that no longer exists, if that law was struck down in between the time the person supposedly broke it, and the time they were actually brought to trial.

All of the charges against him, in that case, would stem from his treatment of Mike and Sulley, which would include Assault and Battery of a High and Aggravated Nature, possibly with Intent to Kill, although in our world, at least, that last charge is almost always contingent upon the accused using a deadly weapon, such as a gun, knife or baseball bat. Charges stemming from his interreaction with them could possibly also include kidnapping, which WOULD be a felony, BUT here again, it was never Randall's intent to take Mike in the first place, so that charge would be entirely dependent on his holding Mike against his will. Here again, though, Randall has just as much a case against either of them as they do against HIM, especially if Sulley ever got called to the witness stand. Sulley just can't lie worth a darn; it'd be obvious to anyone with half a brain if he was even trying, and even a n00bie defense attorney, when questioning Sulley, is going to ask him, "just what DID you and Mr. Wazowski INTEND to happen to Mr. Boggs when you threw him into that door leading to the Human World? Did you or did you NOT INTEND for him to come to physical harm at the hands of the humans that you KNEW would be inside? And is not also true, Mr. Sullivan, that you held Mr. Boggs for quite some time against HIS will, long after he'd stopped trying to harm you or the child, and that you, along with Mr. Wazowski, used that time to plan or pre-meditate throwing my client into an OCCUPIED dwelling in the Human World, where you KNEW he'd be attacked?"
Sulley can't even hold up to a simple direct question-"what ARE you two DOING?" in the movie, without stammering like an idiot, so how do you think he'd hold up to a defense attorney going after him on the witness stand, grilling him mercilessly like a piece of steak?

A lot of people, who have no concept of the law, believe that what Mike and Sulley did was "self-defense". That argument MUST be based on the aggressor, in this case Randall, continuing to present a very real physical threat to them, continuing to press his attack, and them having no other recourse but to fight back. As we saw in the movie, this was NOT the case. Any physical threat from Randall had already been negated by Sulley long before they tossed him through that door, and he was under Sulley's complete control. He was already restrained, so the logical and LEGAL thing to have done would be to make a citizens arrest, and take him to the nearest law enforcement authorities, who were already in the building. Instead, they continued to hold Randall, without reading him his rights, and they took time to plan on how to "punish" him themselves, and even a rookie defense attorney is also going to argue the point that the REAL reason they tossed Randall into the Human World, into an occupied dwelling, with the intent that he be attacked and come to serious bodily harm by the humans inside, was to prevent HIM from testifying about how they were the ones who were actually concealing a human child and that they were also repsonsible for letting that child into the factory in the first place, both illegal acts at that time, which would also make them guilty of Conspiracy, both in the act of concealing a human child, and in silencing a witness. To make matters worse for those two, you KNOW, as sure as the sun rises and sets, that Mike Wazowski is going to lie under oath, especially if the defense has an opportunity to question him and Sulley separately(and it's just as assured that the defense WILL request doing just that). His testimony is going to greatly contradict Sulley's, so the conclusion has to be that ONE of them is lying, committing Perjury, which IS a felony. Knowing that in the event that this goes to trial, THEY are as likely to be convicted of some serious crimes as Randall is, would make those two, and Sulley especially, since he's got the most to loose now, think twice about pressing charges.

IF the whole thing goes through, and Randall IS convicted of felony charges, then yes, it will have a negative impact on him being able to find work, rent or finance anything, vote, own a firearm, etc. Misdemenor charges, not so much. He'd still have trouble getthing many jobs, especially those with good pay or those requiring him to work with potentially dangerous equipment or materials, and THAT is one of the arguments against the theory that Randall was always an untrustworthy trouble-maker: at some point prior to ever having been hired by M.I., he would have had some brushes with the law if this were the case, and would have some record, which would make it VERY difficult for him to be hired there, especially in the capacity of Scarer.

pitbulllady

[pitbulllady]

JUST to give you an idea of how long it can take for a case to actually go to court, with regards to Waternoose, and how being rich and influential can really be to one's advantage when one is indicted for a crime, I just saw in one of the local papers here today where a prominent area attorney, who was indicted in 2004, initially, of Securities Fraud, Embezzelment and Breach of Trust-all Federal felony charges-was just sentenced this past Friday...to a mere 30 months in a minimum-security prison and five years probation. All charges were reduced to misdemenors after she plea bargained. I know of this particular case really well because this attorney was hired by my now-deceased great aunt to handle her estate upon her death, and my family were among several whom she embezzeled that money from. It took us over two years to get any of our money that had been left to us in our aunt's will, and most of the families' heirs from whom this attorney stole money by embezzeling clients' fortunes were never paid. This woman also stole over 5.8 MILLION dollars from people that she convinced to invest in a fraudulent company she claimed to have purchased, and she stole several hundred thousand dollars from a CHURCH, who entrusted her with that money to hire a company to build them a new rectory. Some of the charges against her have been pending for five years, like I said, and this only just now went to trial. Not only that, but of course, she got off with what amounts to a slap on the wrist. This woman is part of a well-known, influential area family, which has a lot of "old money" going back to the 1800s, and look what happened. If this had been you or me in that position, the Federal judge would have thrown the book at US a long time ago! That's why I'm totally unconvinced that Henry J. Waternoose would ever be convicted, especially in light of HIS power, wealth and influence, and that it would take more than five years for a trial of that magnatude, of a national importance, to ever go take place, especially since his team of attorneys could very well get a trial delayed repeatedly while waiting for that key witness, Randall, to show up. Sulley and Mike might have been witnesses to the culmination of the project, but they weren't aware of what was going on throughout the whole thing, start to finish, as Randall was, so their testimony would not count as much as his, or be as valuable to the prosecutors. It's not unreasonable to assume that the judge could be convinced to declare a mistrial, and Waternoose could go free.

pitbulllady

[RandallBoggs]

Oh jeez I WISH I could find that bit....
That is something that really grinds my gears when people blame Randall for that. We see it all CLEAR AS DAY that Randall had no intention of letting the kid run around, causing a panic, and CLEAR AS DAY we see it was Sullivan performing all that action.
Funny how the C.D.A. isn't overly concerned about actually letting this "little matter" slip by them, though they still made sure Sullivan and Wazowski didn't reveal that fact. And would lead one to wonder if the C.D.A. hasn't commited other hanous acts 0_-
--------------------------
.....Randall may be intangled by the C.D.A. Seeing as how they intiated a cover-up, and with Sullivan and Wazowski having not told about it, he wouldn't just blow the lid off of them and Waternoose, but a government organization as well. And how would THAT look publicized?
"Lizard Monster witness assists in putting away former CEO Henry Waternoose, plantiff of current CEO James Sullivan and worker Micheal Wazowski, and a witness to conspiracy cover-up by the C.D.A." Wow.
I wouldn't think Randall would have to "pay his debt"...in reality he was trying to do something like that with the extractor. As for getting a job....
Well Scarers shouldn't be OVERLY eliminated...afterall that's years of training for newbies and aspirers to become them all losing out on their jobs/dreams. And I can't honestly see Randall being a comedian either, making balloon animals, in a clown suit, while wearing a diaper (though that would be pretty funny ^0^). Na...maybe he WOULD though, and there has be allusions to this, being mechanical expert for the M.I. building....
---------------------------------------------------
That is true. And the laws on humans are relatively flakey at the time given the revelation of them all learning humans aren't toxic. And convicting someone with that intent would be a public outcry of some sort of injustice given that the public was "lied to" for so long.
Not to mention, Ran's physical and mental state at the time. And that might also influence how comfortable mons would get with humans. Can see Ran stareing at Sullivan and directing a thought at him "see what happens when you get close to humans..." sorta thing, though it's unknown if Randall knew about Boo's connection, but just in general shows Sullivan the danger HE might face if he continued meeting her.
True ^0^
And like said, Sullivan switched hands as some point, so he HAD time, more than we see.
Oh yes, Wazowski can lie like heck (can imagine HIM trying to get sympathy if he was married to Celia at the time). But Sullivan...no no no. And you can imagine the little eyeball just stareing daggers at Sullivan on the stand spilling the beans on what they did.
---------------------------------------
*shakes head* Injustice for ya *shakes head*
And how would THAT be CEO Sullivan? 0_-