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Post by pitbulllady on May 27, 2009 19:45:59 GMT -5
Thing is though, the authorities (CDA) probably KNOW what happened to Randall. They just don't seem to care. The public, possibly do not know. However although there are similarities between our world and theirs, we don't know if socially speaking people WOULD care. For all we know the monster world could be different like that, in an albeit disturbing way. Perhaps civilians CAN do that. Not that that excuses their actions at all. I actually like Sulley alot (favourite character actually, but I hate the fact he threw Randall out the door, that was quite a shock) and I think he was a good at his job, and I don't buy the whole 'it was RIGGED' thing myself. It's just a fact to me that Sulley and Randall are DIFFERENT scarers. It's not so much a matter of who is better per say when it comes to the numbers or the scare record, but who makes the kid scream quicker. In terms of different styles of scaring, Sulley probably just barges in and roars at the kid and gets his screams very quickly (with his considerable bulk, hiding isn't much of an option). Randall... probably is more... artistic about the whole thing should I say? Takes a bit more time with each scare and gets the result. He can do that with his invisibility/ ability to climb up walls etc. That sort of thing. He can get more creative about the whole act. He probably even keeps the kids scared as they went into a higher level of maturity than most. Sully may have the most scares, but I'm willing to bet Randall has the least amount of shredded doors per year for that reason, if you get my drift. Shredded doors are probably replaced quite quickly, considering the amount of children being born! That being said the Scare Record thing was never explained either. It says 'All-time' but in the end I'm not sure that makes much sense. Wouldn't it make more sense and be more fair to have a record of most screams achieved in a year? Plus Mike saying Randall would be 'cheating' if he'd been working after hours was a bit of a stretch and very unfair. If someone is willing to put the extra hours in, thn they should be entitled to the title. But that's just me. Other weird things to consider: Why was it only ever 'scarer' of the month on the wall? What about other employess who are not scarers? Do they not deserve recognition? (Shrugs) Plus the fact is, like I said, Randall is more likely to have less shredded doors- should that not be taken into account as well? Eh. They have a weird system. Plus, Randall was Sulley's trainer? Where was that said? (Only has the single DVD, has no idea how to get the two DVD set) Was it in the extra special features or something? Why exactly would there be a conspiracy surrounding Sully specifically anyway? I don't see much the point in rigging his numbers specifically, just to rile Randall. Basically they're both good scarers. The best. But Sulley is a construction worker and Randall the artist. And in the end the all time scare record relies on SPEED of achieving scares for the most part. On another note. I would have liked to have seen Randall actually in action against a kid on a normal working day. (Am I the only one?) As re: the whole friendship thing. I couldn't see Mike or Randall ever coming to any agreement. Sulley is more possible to come to some sort of agreement with out of the two. At some point. Eventually. They'd never be BEST buds though. Too much bad blood after the whole thing. Once you've been in the professional work force long enough, you'll have a better understanding of why I believe, deeply and sincerely, that not all of Sulley's success was honest. Not that HE knew about it, of course, but out of a company with literally thousands of employees, hundreds of which are Scarers alone, for ONE PERSON, over and over again, month after month, to receive the same top spot of recognition is just plain suspicious...and it's even more so for the fact that the relationship between Sulley and the company's CEO was far more than just a normal employer/employee relationship. They were close friends, and had been for a long time, and even more, Sulley was more or less a protege' of Waternoose's, a surrogate son. He even says so himself: "You've been just like a father to me." Now, as long as I've been a working professional, with as many bosses and supervisors as I've had, I have NEVER, ever thought of ANY of them as close friends, let alone parent-like! It's just way too much for me to believe it was a mere coincidence that all of Sulley's phenomenal success was all due to his hard work and talent alone, ESPECIALLY after that scene in which he "just happens" to walk into a slumber party...right after two things happen: A)Randall tops him on the Scare Board, and B)Waternoose walks onto the Scare Floor. Again, I've seen way too much "cronyism" myself, and I know it exists. That's not all; notice the difference between the way that Waternoose treats Sulley after his slumber party scare, and the way he treats Randall after HIS brief success. He is quick to congratulate Sulley, but totally ignores Randall's success, even though it would seem that ANY Scarer who was still bringing in Scream Energy at such as rate as those two would warrant lavish praise. Randall was not that far behind Sulley at any point, and was far out ahead of the third-place contender, and when you consider that unlike Sulley, Randall also had a very involved side job, the Scream Extractor, to take away from him really being able to give his all at his official job, it really makes it all the more remarkable that the guy was as far ahead and successful as he was! Still, he did not get so much as a sideways glance of appreciation from his boss. For a Type Three "people pleaser" like Randall, who is emotionally dependent on the praise and approval of others, this is a devastating blow. And, THIS is precisely where that secret rigging of the Scare Board could have been used by Waternoose to his advantage. By keeping Randall's emotional "comfort zone" just out of his reach, he would ensure Randall's willingness and determination to build and test the Scream Extractor. If Randall got ahead, and stayed ahead, on the Scare Board and attained at least some of the praise he was so desperately craving, he would not have been as compelled to build a machine which would, once proven successful and officially and legally approved, put an end to Scaring. Randall was convinced that this machine was his ticket to fame and fortune, but more importantly, to earning the respect of others, and therefore was worth all the back-breaking work, the lost sleep, the lost social life and all the other sacrifices he'd put into it. He was willing to go that far, to take that risk, just to be liked/accepted. If he'd gotten that same "warm-fuzzy feeling" from being the Top Scarer, though, then he would have, at some point, questioned whether all his slaving over that machine was really worth it, and he might have had second thoughts about doing it. Waternoose could not let that happen, of course, since not only would it set HIM back, but there would be an even greater chance that if Randall backed out, he might slip up and tell someone about the machine and implicate his boss. Randall's 110% loyalty HAD to be secured, by whatever means necessary, and Waternoose knew that the best way to do so was to make sure that while the proverbial horse got to SEE the carrot, it could never actually take a bite of it, and that meant making sure that Randall could never stay on top of the Scare Board, or become Employee of the Month, or get any other sort of positive recognition he was so earnestly needing. Randall, while a very different Scarer than Sulley, as you pointed out, was also a very GOOD one, and had just as much of a chance, if things were left to transpire on their own, to be the Top Scarer, at least several times. I simply cannot believe that Sulley was that much better than he was that Randall could never overtake him at all, so that only leaves one logical conclusion to explain why Sulley was ALWAYS more successful. As for Mike's comment that Randall was "cheating" because he was working after-hours, the "Employee Handbook" specifically states that working overtime is not only accepted, but ENCOURAGED! If Randall had actually been doing that, it would have been perfectly legit, not cheating at all, since it would have been bringing in more Scream for the company! What is so bad, though, is that due to Mike's stupid little sour-grapes comment, the world will forever think of Randall as a "cheater" who used dishonest means to get ahead, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth! Even what he WAS working on, the Scream Extractor, was NOT connected to the Scare Board, so any Screams he DID successfully collect during its trial period would not have counted towards his or any other Scarer's totals. Now, about "banishment" being something that ANY monster could legally inflict upon any other monster-think about, how many people have YOU ever gotten really angry with, for whatever reasons, in the course of YOUR life? Now, suppose that you had the right and authority to chuck each and every one of those people who'd p***ed you off bad enough into another dimension, where they were sure to go through hell...how many people would that be? Then, multiply that number, assuming that's a fairly average number of people who've p***ed off someone really badly, by every single living person on the planet...see where I'm going with this here? If this WERE the case in the Monster World, there wouldn't be any monsters left over there, and WE would really be dealing with one helluva population explosion on OUR side of the dimensional vortex! If any monster could simply chuck any other monster who upset him or made him angry into the Human World, they'd ALL eventually wind up over here, since no matter how nice they are, at some point, they're all gonna really get someone's proverbial goat! Therefore, it only makes sense that banishment is a legal punishment/sentence to be carried out by the judiciary system, rather than something anyone can do, to whomever they feel like. And yeah, the CDA probably DID know what happened to Randall, but because of WHAT he was-an apparently-disliked minority-they could care less, and covered it up, making them as guilty as Sulley was of a heinous crime. The bit about Randall having trained Sulley(and Mike-lost cause there if ever there was one) comes from one of the video games; Sean will have to tell you the name. Before you react, I have been told, by an actual Disney animator, that the officially-sanctioned games based on either Disney's or Pixar's movies ARE considered "canon", so this means that Sulley not only wasn't always the Top Scarer, but he was not always a Scarer, period. Randall was picked to train him because at that time, Randall was the Top Scarer, and because as hard as it is to believe from his demeanor in the movie, at the point in his life before all this mess with the Scream Extractor, before it all started falling apart, Randall was actually a good instructor, which meant he had to not only be good at what HE did, but patient enough to teach that to someone else and to be able to coach and encourage them, even if they were total n00bs. That's a far cry from the stressed-out, irrascible Randall we see in the movie, is it not? pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 27, 2009 20:09:29 GMT -5
And not to mention Randall WAS Top Scarer before AND trained Sullivan. So all in all, Randall WAS ahead before (in effect "Tasting" what he feel he needed), and the constant of him always being beyond reach when Sullivan gets on the job is fishy enough.
THAT and the fact Randall blantantly becomes crossed when the word is used against him that he nearly spilled the beans on what he was actually doing. And as we know, Randall hates being accused of something he's NOT doing...especially when the person who said it he thinks IS doing it.
Exactly. And there ARE doors DESIGNED for the purpose of banishment. SPECIFIED places. Just chucking someone into any old door is just like a death sentence, one of which Randall was basically handed. And what kind of hero gets off scott-free from a crime. Especially one who KNOWS they're guilty.
Exactly. And with the good comments thing....that mostly comes from Randall's own game, Pinball Panic, in which he is very encouraging to the player during it, despite that fact that goal of the game is to top Randall's high score. *folds arms* *coughs* Ran actually told me that he was the one who suggested that Wazowski honestly had NO talent in scareing...and that an assistant post was good for him. In effect, it was a re-cause for their...ahem..."acquaintance"
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Post by pitbulllady on May 28, 2009 18:37:03 GMT -5
And not to mention Randall WAS Top Scarer before AND trained Sullivan. So all in all, Randall WAS ahead before (in effect "Tasting" what he feel he needed), and the constant of him always being beyond reach when Sullivan gets on the job is fishy enough. THAT and the fact Randall blantantly becomes crossed when the word is used against him that he nearly spilled the beans on what he was actually doing. And as we know, Randall hates being accused of something he's NOT doing...especially when the person who said it he thinks IS doing it. Exactly. And there ARE doors DESIGNED for the purpose of banishment. SPECIFIED places. Just chucking someone into any old door is just like a death sentence, one of which Randall was basically handed. And what kind of hero gets off scott-free from a crime. Especially one who KNOWS they're guilty. Exactly. And with the good comments thing....that mostly comes from Randall's own game, Pinball Panic, in which he is very encouraging to the player during it, despite that fact that goal of the game is to top Randall's high score. *folds arms* *coughs* Ran actually told me that he was the one who suggested that Wazowski honestly had NO talent in scareing...and that an assistant post was good for him. In effect, it was a re-cause for their...ahem..."acquaintance" Randall nearly hit the ceiling when he was falsely accused of "cheating", lol! He came really, really close to telling Wazowski the truth at that point, to set the record straight, as cheating seems to be something that Randall genuinely abhores. Of course, I'm sure that Randall KNEW that something had to be going on with Sulley's non-stop successes; whether he really knew exactly what Waternoose was doing or not, I can't say, but given his intelligence, Randall HAD to figure that the odds against ONE employee getting all that recognition, month after month, out of thousands of other employees, were astronomical. It's just so sad, and so maddening to us fans that most people who've watched the movie will always associate Randall with cheating due to Wazowski's stupidity, and most people just aren't smart enough to realize that this could NOT have been the case at all! As I've commented before, the real conflict was between Randall and MIKE, NOT Randall and Sulley, even though it was Sullivan's name that was displayed on the Scare Board. Mike was still the one in that team who called the shots, and as we see in the early locker room scene, Mike is also the one who goes out of his way to antagonize Randall by taunting him with his second-place standing. It's also Mike, not Sulley, whom RANDALL targets with his practical joke in that scene. Sulley just looks at the both of them as an adult would at two children bickering over a cheap toy. Mike and Randall have virtually identical personality types, driven by a hard-wired need to be recognized and noticed, and neither of them are exactly emotionally stable, Randall even less so due to his circumstances. For this reason, the best that anyone can expect from the two of them, in terms of how they get along(or not), is for them to ignore each other and keep a mutual distance. While I really don't think that Sulley and Randall will ever be best buds, I can see them at least being able to carry on a civilized conversation at some point and come to some semblence of peaceful coexistance. Back to the Randall-As-Trainer/Coach thing, though: many people probably assume that Randall was always nasty, snarky, bad-tempered and prone to violence. Logically, this simply cannot be the case. As I've said before, Randall's presence simply would not have been tolerated by the management and supervisors at the factory if he could not get along with others. At some point, in order for him to be considered as a Trainer, he had to be an agreeable, helpful individual who could teach others how to scare, while putting newcomers at ease, lest they become discouraged and decide to choose another career path. Doing that requires a very special individual, someone who is personable and able to empathize with others. As LGBB pointed out before, in the game "Pinball Panic", Randall acts as both a coach/mentor and challenger, and rather than put down players who suck at the game, he sorta pulls them up by their proverbial boot straps and encourages them to keep trying, praising success, while at the same time challenging them to beat him, just as a basketball coach will challenge his players to do better. He doesn't put down the player or ridicule them, and I can honestly see him doing this with a bunch of n00bie Scarer recruits, knowing when to push them and when to back off, how to be challenging without being threatening. Given the caliber of Scare Recruits that seemed to be showing up, he really would have had his work cut out for him! It goes to show, though, that Randall is NOT an inately disagreeable, ill-tempered son-of-a-female-dog, but was turned into one over time, due to the stress he had to have been under while designing and building the Scream Extractor. It was as if that machine, designed to suck the screams from human children, had instead nearly sucked the very soul out of its creator, robbing HIM of even more than it would have robbed its intended victims. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 28, 2009 18:59:41 GMT -5
*nods* Wouldn't doubt that if Randall had the time to search, he might've found out that there was evidence to what was going on. Of course, wouldn't put it past Waternoose to kaeep Randall away from anything that incrimdates THAT piece of the puzzle.
Of course given some actions, that might be even harder for him and Sullivan. *shrugs* Not just because of the act itself...but Randall probably never expect Sullivan to do THAT to anyone.
Umm...wasn't that me who pointed that out? 0_0 Of course this goes to show how much Randall would've changed if things actually did turn out roses. And we DO see some of that, as Ran himself admits he had no intention of offing Sullivan...heck...even no intention of firing him. That despite the events with the Scream Extractor, he WAS trying his hardest to keep himself together. (I remind the "Second Chance" he gave BOTH of them). Though sadly that fell when things kept piling up....
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Post by mentalguru on May 29, 2009 7:16:29 GMT -5
You make an excellent point pitbulllady, yeah, I guess the public WOULD be angry if they knew.
I also think that the twisting of numbers is more possible. I'm not 100% convinced, but it certainly is more possible than I gave it credit for.
Sulley just had to be 2nd best so any 'tweaking' wouldn't seem so out of place if it did happen (there was a gap between Randall, Sulley and the third monster, wasn't there?). It's possible certainly.
(The public not knowing is going to probably come up at a point in my fanfic, for Sulley's own redemption arc. by the way.)
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Post by pitbulllady on May 29, 2009 16:41:26 GMT -5
You make an excellent point pitbulllady, yeah, I guess the public WOULD be angry if they knew. I also think that the twisting of numbers is more possible. I'm not 100% convinced, but it certainly is more possible than I gave it credit for. Sulley just had to be 2nd best so any 'tweaking' wouldn't seem so out of place if it did happen (there was a gap between Randall, Sulley and the third monster, wasn't there?). It's possible certainly. (The public not knowing is going to probably come up at a point in my fanfic, for Sulley's own redemption arc. by the way.) Mike's "play" made fun of Randall, and certainly the other employees knew that SOMETHING had happened to him, but the play does not show exactly WHAT happened, or WHY it happened. As I've brought up here before, though, Randall would have been a very important witness for Waternoose's trial, and both the defense and the prosecution would be very interested in knowing his whereabouts. The very outcome of that trial could hinge upon Randall's testimony, actually, unless Waternoose's death occurred before the case actually went to trial. I'm not sure if the general public would be as outraged over what actually happened to Randall, due to his "race", if you will, but that still would not change the fact that a law was broken. The Monster World in the movie did not strike me as the sort of place where vigilantism was permitted, let alone encouraged, and where anyone could take the law into their own hands/tentacles/whatever. If the CDA does know what happened to Randall, or rather, who was responsible(as opposed to believing that Randall's winding up in the Human World was accidental), then there is a major cover-up, indicating some very high-level corruption going on. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 29, 2009 19:10:46 GMT -5
The public WOULD definetly be outraged, especially the reptilian populace, which is perhaps the main reason it was all kept quite. If it was learned that, essentially, a hate crime was committed, known about, AND dropped, there would be an uproar.
And since Randall DID train Sullivan, Randall had already obtained verteran status. By the time Sullivan started, Randall would've been far ahead. And in the short time Sullivan actually worked at M.I., him getting all the way past everybody and Randall is just astounishing....and suspecious.
*chuckles* *grins* Funny...funny that the "police force" for scareing, the C.D.A, are a different faction from the normal police. Makes ya wonder if the C.D.A. heads have something going on ^_-
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Post by pitbulllady on May 29, 2009 20:53:46 GMT -5
The public WOULD definetly be outraged, especially the reptilian populace, which is perhaps the main reason it was all kept quite. If it was learned that, essentially, a hate crime was committed, known about, AND dropped, there would be an uproar. And since Randall DID train Sullivan, Randall had already obtained verteran status. By the time Sullivan started, Randall would've been far ahead. And in the short time Sullivan actually worked at M.I., him getting all the way past everybody and Randall is just astounishing....and suspecious. *chuckles* *grins* Funny...funny that the "police force" for scareing, the C.D.A, are a different faction from the normal police. Makes ya wonder if the C.D.A. heads have something going on ^_- We have various government bureaucracies here that police different aspect of our lives, like the FDA and the EPA or OSHA, all of which have law enforcement capabilities, yet are not affiliated with any state or local police force. The EPA monitors businesses that produce or use any toxic materials, that could get into the environment, as are sort of comparable to the CDA. Anywhere you've got a bureaucrat, you've got ripe potential for corruption. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 30, 2009 20:30:27 GMT -5
Of course some may think of "protection" as not relatively being in the category of corruption.
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Post by ivyandbro on Sept 25, 2010 8:22:45 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to kill you now, besides, these cookies are legendary. /chomps
I think that if Mike wasn't there, Sully and Randall would be good friends. In fact, I think that they're compatible for each other, as best friends.
Mike must've rubbed in too much influence on Sully. He seems a nice guy, who wouldn't really openly 'hate' people, or go around throwing racist insults, like his best friend.
Theory 1: Mike seems to be the mommy's boy. I mean, his mom must've married at an old age, to find the 'right guy.' Then she was able to give birth, but only to one child [like my mom] She seems to have wanted more kids, but for medical reasons, she settled for one, which she really spoiled. Her husband must've openly/silently disagreed the whole time. He must be the kind of dad who wants his son to 'be a man' and such. Mike must've been close to his mother.
His mom might be overprotective, the kind who would say "Don't touch that! It's dangerous!" and other stuff like that. You could tell what kind of person she is, the kind who would make her son.. you know, conform and such. Mike seems the trendy type too.
What else. Oh no, I lost my train of thought D:
But you get my point, right?
right?
That Randall and Sully would make great friends if only Mike never existed.
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Post by randallsnape7 on Nov 13, 2014 23:30:00 GMT -5
Mike, Sulley, and Randall ABSOLUTELY must become best friends. Even though none of them admit it, they all need each other.
To quote Emperor Palpatine: "It is unavoidable.... it is your DESTINY."
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Post by randallsnape7 on Nov 30, 2014 21:47:18 GMT -5
AAAAAH!!!
YES! I never realized that. In that corridor scene, Randall says "CHEATING?! I... Cheating... RIGHT. Okay, I know how to make this all go away..."
THAT tells me that when Mike accused Randall of cheating, he just revealed to Randall that Sulley MUST have been cheating to constantly stay ahead of Randall, which he finds suspicious. That's the FIRST time I picked that up! WHY ELSE would he have stopped dead in his tracks mid-sentence, then repeat the word 'cheating'? Because he had an epitome moment... a small revelation that finally makes sense.
I guess MOST people interpreted that scene to mean that Randall was 'definitely' cheating, and when Mike 'called him on the carpet', that pause was his initial fear of his 'evil' plan being found out... THEN, the second time he says 'cheating', it rings of more confidence... because he's regaining control of himself again. A jerk would lay it on thick, and since he's a slimy, sneaky chameleon, he can just DO that and get by with it.
Mike almost assuredly has his own lame theory about what this conversation might have meant, but it's obvious nonsense. Both movies make it clear that - protagonist or not - Mike is not a reliable witness, and his own telling of various facts are frequently distorted by his own desire to minimize the importance of what he has heard.
This is SOOOOOOO, SO like that Snape scene in "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix", when, in Professor Umbridge's office, Harry calls out desperately to Snape:
HARRY: "He's got PADFOOT! He's got Padfoot in the place where it's hidden!"
UMBRIDGE: "Padfoot? What is Padfoot? Where WHAT is hidden? WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT, SNAPE?"
Snape makes a brief, concerned glance of silent acknowledgment to Harry (which he OBVIOUSLY doesn't pick up, since he HATES the man so vehemently), then he turns to Umbridge and puts on an aloof, pompous jerk façade and pipes out to her: "No idea.", then he leaves.
Unbeknownst to Harry, SNAPE is the one who alerted the Order members to show up in the Department of Mysteries when the Death Eaters started attacking in the Ministry of Magic.
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 1, 2014 14:24:43 GMT -5
That was exactly what Randall would have been thinking-that Sulley was cheating to get where he was, and that was part of the reason why Randall was building the Scream Extractor. He knew he couldn't beat a cheater at the cheater's own game, so he'd just invent a new "game" and circumvent the competition for the All-time Scare Record altogether. Now that we've seen MU, Randall's reasoning makes sense. HE knows Sulley as a cheater from college, and there's no reason to think that that particular leopard has changed its spots. Randall has every reason to believe that Sulley cheated to beat him in the Scare Games, AND got away with it because of his family name, and surely it didn't take long for the news to get out that Sulley actually had admitted to cheating to help his team "win", and Randall would have no reason to believe that Sulley had changed, quite the opposite, in fact, since logically there's no way for any one individual to experience that level of success. Randall almost revealed to Mike the truth about what he was doing, rather than be labeled a cheater himself, something clearly abhorrent to him, but stops himself just in time and decides to go along with Mike's accusations, realizing that even the consequences of that, being labeled a cheater, would be lesser than revealing the truth about the Scream Extractor.
pitbulllady
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