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Post by AvistheCrow on Feb 18, 2005 23:05:06 GMT -5
Eyeball: Amusing.
Fur Rug: Typically a nice guy.
Eyeball And Fur Rug When Connected With Randall Business: Not-nice thoughts.
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Post by Light Rises on Feb 19, 2005 4:52:30 GMT -5
*nods* Pretty much the sum of what I think on the subject. And it's funny to think -- unintentional on the filmmakers' part though it probably was -- how M.I. has ended up becoming a testament to the types of extreme things everyone's capable of doing in the right circumstances. Randall, Sulley, and Mike would all most likely be relatively harmless in normal situations, and that's a bit scary, in a way: how one "typically nice" and one "amusing" guy could suddenly believe it "okay" to be as vindictive as they thought their rival had been. Randall's reasons -- while not excuses -- were at least a heckuva lot better than Mike and Sulley's in terms of what each respective party had done to the other. Randall had been fighting for his survival; the Eyeball and Fur Rug wanted revenge. Motivations still matter here, and particularly when one side gets away with wrongdoing which was just as bad (if not worse) than the wrongdoing that was commited against them. We're talking about the supposed "good guys" here, after all.
So do I hate Sulley and Mike? Nah; they're deeply flawed, but certainly not evil. Am I angry at them for doing what they did to Randall, thinking at the moment that it was perfectly "okay," AND that they got away with it scott-free? Absolutely.
~Light Rises
P.S. - *gasps* Avis, you're not a "Lowly Dogsbody" anymore! w00t.
Getting sleepy...must go to bed now...*slinks away*
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Post by AvistheCrow on Feb 19, 2005 10:20:22 GMT -5
I'm not a lowly dogsbody! *dancedance* You have a really well-thought-out comment on them both. (Pleasure to read your things, always! =D) And after reading it I have to say that I'm entirely addicted to your line of thought. *pokes at the rest of the board* Come on, people. Anyone going to talk, or do I need to get this thing some posts all by myself?
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 19, 2005 10:50:24 GMT -5
Personally, I hate them on the same level as Randall. They easily distreated him in the past, like everyone else had done.
Let me give you the run down.
When in school, Sullivan and Wazowski treated Ran as a "second-class" citizen that didn't even deserve to be in the place.
When in the workplace, there were different outputs.
Randall as Top Scarer: Randall felt pretty good at this point, having a position and life that mattered. So far, he shared a neutral relationship with Sullivan, maybe Wazowski.
Randall as Trainer: Randall hit Sullivan with any way in the book NOT to make him a scarer. Of course, Sullivan didn't enjoy Randall about this....
Randall as second: Randall KNEW something was wrong, Sullivan beating HIM?
In short, the two had done more than Randall had.
Randall: Had almost tried to kill Sullivan and Wazowski (ok...that's probably the only REAL crime he tried to do...but he WAS ordered)
Sullivan and Wazowski: Sullivan DIDN'T come to Randall when this whole thing began and wondered why he had a door out (of course, it could be Randall just saying he was doing overtime, which IS reasonable). They KEPT and LIED about the kid, even when they thought she was dangerous.....
There are more, but the BIG one is ILLEGALLY exiling Randall......
I'm sorry, I'd rather not talk about the two right now....
Sheesh....I swear Rendell took them over after he took over Randall....then again that's not an excuse to their actions...
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 19, 2005 11:23:54 GMT -5
Now we have been through this before, LOL! I really, REALLY do NOT believe that Randall went to school with Mike and Sulley! I know people pretty darn well, how they typically behave at certain ages, since I've lived long enough to have experienced much of it myself. Mike and Sulley act and talk like typical 40-ish single males, Mike especially, with his new car(can you say, "Mid-Life Crisis"?). Randall, on the other hand-we KNOW from the "M.I. Annual" was just 25 at the time of the movie, and HE acts like a typical 25-year-old single male-overly ambitious, driven to succede at all costs, competitive, somewhat immature, and full of stress. With at least 15 years worth of age difference between them, there is simply no way they would have gone to school together! Sulley might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I don't think he flunked his grade THAT many times, nor would Randall likely to have been accelerated in his grade level by that much! Plus, while it's clear that Sulley DOES have a vindictive streak, it's impossible to imagine him ever being a bully and picking on people. He didn't get to be so well-liked among his co-workers, many of whom he probably DID go to school with, by being a bully. MIKE, on the other hand, probably would have been, IF he'd had the size and courage to back him up, and he is clearly lacking in both. That's why he hangs around with Sulley; it gives him a sense of security. Notice how he runs his mouth at Randall when Sulley is around, but is terrified of him when it's just him and Randall. Naw, there's too much age difference between Randall and his two rivals for them to have gone to school together.
pitbulllady
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Post by Mirage on Feb 19, 2005 14:56:28 GMT -5
I'm with pitbullady, I don't think there's any way they went to school together!
Oh, eyeball and fur rug....they're funny. And cute at times. It's pretty much all been said, though; they're just as much in the wrong as any other character. And ultimately, even more so than Randall (with whom, of course, my sympathies will always lie).
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 19, 2005 15:48:16 GMT -5
Faintly Pitbulllady. Logically, no they didn't. For some reason age difference doesn't matter.
Hasn't anybody learned that with Disney and Pixar, Randall CAN'T control his life? So...regardless....yes they do all go to school together. I can't explain HOW, but they did.....
Believe me. They did somehow. It's just how things are...
Mirage....are you saying Randall's a complete liar?
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Post by Mirage on Feb 19, 2005 16:00:30 GMT -5
Did I ever imply that he was? Ever? (Why would I? And about what?) ...none of that made any sense...
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 19, 2005 16:52:29 GMT -5
Randall (with whom, of course, my sympathies will always lie).
I thought that meant you thought Randall would always lie?....Maybe it was worded wrong or something for me.
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 19, 2005 17:20:09 GMT -5
Sean, you can't just say that "age doesn't matter"; we know from the "Essential Guide" that Mike and Sulley went to kindergarten together, so they would have to be the same age, but even in the flashback comics in "Disney Adventures", where Mike and Sulley are shown in school, there's no mention of Randall whatsoever. The fact that "Randall can't control his life" with Disney or Pixar has nothing to do with the fact that he is much younger than Mike and Sulley! Seriously, VERY few people *I* know CAN control their own lives-every single one of us to some extent are affected by events outside our control or foresight. The only feasable way for them to have all gone to school together is if the Monster World's education system was like that of rural America around the turn of the 20th Century, with children of all ages attending a one-room school house, all taught by one teacher, all writing on slates. I don't see any evidence of this at all in the movie, and the movie and the books based on it, as well as online articles from the movie's creators, are all we have to go on. Now, I mean we can all write fanfics, and that includes those written by people who absolutely HATE Randall, but if fanfics were "official" then those written by people like "The TallOne" and some of ones by Randall-haters would be just as important as those written by any of us. I can pretty much guarantee that Sulley and Mike are in their 40's, and I can base THAT on the fact that I myself am in that age group, so I'm pretty familiar with the ways people act. We KNOW because it is stated fact in a book that Randall was only 25, so again, barring the old one-room schoolhouse scenario, there is simply no way that the three of them could have gone to school together, let alone been in the same classes. It just doesn't make any sense. PLUS, as I've pointed out before, if Sulley had exhibited such an obvious mean streak for his entire life, he certainly would not have been liked much at all! THAT aspect of people, the tendency to pick on others who can't defend themselves, does not, unfortunately, tend to change. Young bullies just grow up into older, bigger bullies, IF someone doesn't pop a cap in 'em first. Sulley was popular and well-liked, not something I'd expect from a long-time bully. Yes, he DID have that mean, vindictive streak, but that was probably something HE himself didn't know about until he saw an opportunity to use it, and even that is not the same as picking on little kids.
I quite honestly don't believe that Randall had ever laid eyes on either Mike or Sulley before gaining employment at Monsters, Inc.; he probably didn't even grow up in the same part of their country. He is at least 12-15 years younger than they are as well, and since everything else in Monstropolis-the clocks, the sensationalistic journalism, the trendy restaurants, etc., all parallels what we have here, there's no reason to assume that their education system isn't similar, too. Let's say for the sake of math that at the time of the movie, Sulley and Mike are 42, since they "fit the profile". Randall, as we know, is 25. That's SEVENTEEN years' difference! By the time Randall entered first grade at the age of six, Mike and Sulley would have graduated from high school two years prior to that, unless one of 'em flunked a grade(or two), but even still, two guys who are juniors or seniors in high school should not even be in the same BUILDING, let alone classes, as a little first grader, and I can guarantee that guys that age will NOT garner any friends or respect by tormenting a six-year-old, no matter if the six-year-old is of a minority! I just absolutely cannot see Sulley picking on a six-year-old kid of ANY kind! And I don't believe that Mike and Sulley were still in THEIR 20's, either. Again, having been through both ages myself, I know how people typically act, especially guys, since I am able to look at them a bit more objectively, LOL!
pitbulllady
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 19, 2005 17:25:40 GMT -5
No, Mirage isn't saying that Randall is a liar. The word "lie" has many different meanings besides to not tell the truth. It can also mean to "rest with", to "remain with", "to recline". In this instance, when someone says that their sympathies LIE with someone or something, it means that their feelings REMAIN with that certain someone or something. Mirage is simply saying that regardless of who did what to whom, in "Monsters, Inc.", she will always feel sympathy for Randall, over anyone else.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 19, 2005 17:28:58 GMT -5
*sigh* Hmph. Understanding such things is hard isn't it? Think about it.
If someone like Pixar or Disney got the idea to make and M.I. movie about the characters in school, you honestly think they'd leave out important characters, like Randall, because of age?
Randall's life, like so many other characters, isn't that different from ours. But....there are some factors that still oppose him.
No mean to go against you guys. For the time being, Randall's still 25 because nothing's happened to him yet...... Sure...he's around.....29 now in our terms.....but he's still that 25 year old in character terms....
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 19, 2005 17:29:55 GMT -5
Oh ok..... So thats....
Ok...it was just wordered weird for me ^_^
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Post by Mirage on Feb 19, 2005 18:07:01 GMT -5
Randall (with whom, of course, my sympathies will always lie). I thought that meant you thought Randall would always lie?....Maybe it was worded wrong or something for me. Oh!! I understand where this happened; yes, I meant 'lie' as in 'be' or 'reside,' not 'lie' as in 'tell a lie.' ;D
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 19, 2005 20:03:00 GMT -5
Ai....me apologize me ashamed....
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