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Post by vladimirgg on Feb 12, 2006 16:41:17 GMT -5
I know, I just want him to hear it Sully trying to protect Boo or Randall?
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 12, 2006 17:01:16 GMT -5
Sully protecting Boo.
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 12, 2006 18:08:02 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, Vlad- I've never really minded Sulley too much, as he did treat Randall a bit better than everyone else. Yeah he is the type of guy who just had to get pushed (pun not intended) REAL far to get angry, in this case Randall had to try to push him from a high place.... as much as I love Randall, that was uncalled for. Keep in mind a couple of things-ONE, Randall had been ORDERED to kill Sulley, Mike AND Boo by Mr. Waternoose, since they were witnesses. Now, that in and of itself would not give Randall any real reason to carry out such orders, BUT consider this: Randall had personally witnessed how Mr. Waternoose dealt with those who crossed him, even an old family friend(Sulley), whom he pushed through a door to supposedly die in the Himalayas. Now, Randall also knew that Mr. Waternoose did not care for HIM(Randall)in particular, unlike Sullivan, whom Waternoose had been very fond of. If Waternoose was willing to stoop to such lengths as to "banish" his favorite Scarer, and old family friend, wonder what he would have done to RANDALL, if Randall had failed to obey him? Now, if YOU were Randall, and had been given such an order, and KNEW that YOUR life was on the line if you failed to comply, what would YOU have done? Also, and we have discussed this before, too-Randall might actually have been trying to protect Boo himself, in his own way. He had no way to know, and no reason to assume, that Mike and Sulley were protecting her(well, SULLEY, anyway)or that Sulley was attached to her. All he knew was that they had her, AND that they'd dressed her up in a SCALY, PURPLE costume. THAT last part would have driven home to Randall that whatever they intended to do with "the kid", it was going to be a personal attack on HIM. They were somehow going to use her to put a stop to HIS threat to their team breaking the All-Time Scare Record, by turning her over to the CDA(who would probably take the hint from her costume that RANDALL had something to do with it), or whatever, but to Randall, this would have been seen as a direct personal attack on HIM. Plus, we don't know what other significance that costume might have had for him, and various members here have speculated that perhaps Randall himself had a child, or perhaps he'd lost a child, and that costume reminded him of him/her. In either case, it really hit a nerve. Combine that with knowing that he himself faced certain severe punishment, probably death, if he did not do as Waternoose had ordered, factor in his natural resentment for everything that Sulley represented-respect, admiration, friends in high places, a close family-all the things Randall so desparately wanted but did not have, then throw in the physical, mental and emotional stress of the months he'd sacrificed while building the Scream Extractor, and what do you have? You have the proverbial overloaded camel, just waiting for someone to toss on that proverbial last straw to crush its proverbial spinal column, that's what! Instead, it gets TWO straws simultaneously-Sulley and Mike with that kid, dressed in a purple, scaly costume, and Mr. Waternoose ordering Randall to kill them. The guy snapped, plain and simple. There was no planning, no thinking behind what Randall did-just pure, raw emotion and primitive survival instinct, the classic "fight or flight" situation, and he was too caught up in this whole thing, too trapped, as it were, to simply run away from it all, so that only left one option-to take out the enemy before he himself got taken out. In contrast, what Mike and Sulley did to Randall WAS planned. They HAD to have stopped and taken time to THINK about what they were going to do with him, once Sulley had ahold of him and Randall could not escape, and had stopped fighting and struggling. Take him to the authorities? No way, not when THEY themselves were already breaking the law, and were wanted, though I'm sure Mike had more to do with THAT decision than Sulley did, using the argument that if they were in jail or banished they could not very well break the All-Time Scare Record, now COULD they? I used to have doubts as to whether they chose that particular door at random, or if they KNEW what would be on the other side, but I now have no doubts that they were well-aware of where that door led, and what kind of people would be inside, and that they fully intended for Randall to be killed once they tossed him inside. THAT, my friends, is called "Pre-meditated", or "First-Degree MURDER", and THAT, Vladimirgg, was UNCALLED FOR! Sulley may not have hated Randall, not at first, though Mike clearly did, and probably hated all of Randall's like kind, too, and by that point in the movie, Sulley would have been easily pursuaded to take up that banner of hatred/racism. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 12, 2006 18:16:04 GMT -5
And a bit of evidence for that "HAD to think" part is how Sullivan is holding Randall though the door and on the platform....
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Post by vladimirgg on Feb 12, 2006 21:10:01 GMT -5
Yeah he is the type of guy who just had to get pushed (pun not intended) REAL far to get angry, in this case Randall had to try to push him from a high place.... as much as I love Randall, that was uncalled for. Keep in mind a couple of things-ONE, Randall had been ORDERED to kill Sulley, Mike AND Boo by Mr. Waternoose, since they were witnesses. Now, that in and of itself would not give Randall any real reason to carry out such orders, BUT consider this: Randall had personally witnessed how Mr. Waternoose dealt with those who crossed him, even an old family friend(Sulley), whom he pushed through a door to supposedly die in the Himalayas. Now, Randall also knew that Mr. Waternoose did not care for HIM(Randall)in particular, unlike Sullivan, whom Waternoose had been very fond of. If Waternoose was willing to stoop to such lengths as to "banish" his favorite Scarer, and old family friend, wonder what he would have done to RANDALL, if Randall had failed to obey him? Now, if YOU were Randall, and had been given such an order, and KNEW that YOUR life was on the line if you failed to comply, what would YOU have done? Also, and we have discussed this before, too-Randall might actually have been trying to protect Boo himself, in his own way. He had no way to know, and no reason to assume, that Mike and Sulley were protecting her(well, SULLEY, anyway)or that Sulley was attached to her. All he knew was that they had her, AND that they'd dressed her up in a SCALY, PURPLE costume. THAT last part would have driven home to Randall that whatever they intended to do with "the kid", it was going to be a personal attack on HIM. They were somehow going to use her to put a stop to HIS threat to their team breaking the All-Time Scare Record, by turning her over to the CDA(who would probably take the hint from her costume that RANDALL had something to do with it), or whatever, but to Randall, this would have been seen as a direct personal attack on HIM. Plus, we don't know what other significance that costume might have had for him, and various members here have speculated that perhaps Randall himself had a child, or perhaps he'd lost a child, and that costume reminded him of him/her. In either case, it really hit a nerve. Combine that with knowing that he himself faced certain severe punishment, probably death, if he did not do as Waternoose had ordered, factor in his natural resentment for everything that Sulley represented-respect, admiration, friends in high places, a close family-all the things Randall so desparately wanted but did not have, then throw in the physical, mental and emotional stress of the months he'd sacrificed while building the Scream Extractor, and what do you have? You have the proverbial overloaded camel, just waiting for someone to toss on that proverbial last straw to crush its proverbial spinal column, that's what! Instead, it gets TWO straws simultaneously-Sulley and Mike with that kid, dressed in a purple, scaly costume, and Mr. Waternoose ordering Randall to kill them. The guy snapped, plain and simple. There was no planning, no thinking behind what Randall did-just pure, raw emotion and primitive survival instinct, the classic "fight or flight" situation, and he was too caught up in this whole thing, too trapped, as it were, to simply run away from it all, so that only left one option-to take out the enemy before he himself got taken out. In contrast, what Mike and Sulley did to Randall WAS planned. They HAD to have stopped and taken time to THINK about what they were going to do with him, once Sulley had ahold of him and Randall could not escape, and had stopped fighting and struggling. Take him to the authorities? No way, not when THEY themselves were already breaking the law, and were wanted, though I'm sure Mike had more to do with THAT decision than Sulley did, using the argument that if they were in jail or banished they could not very well break the All-Time Scare Record, now COULD they? I used to have doubts as to whether they chose that particular door at random, or if they KNEW what would be on the other side, but I now have no doubts that they were well-aware of where that door led, and what kind of people would be inside, and that they fully intended for Randall to be killed once they tossed him inside. THAT, my friends, is called "Pre-meditated", or "First-Degree MURDER", and THAT, Vladimirgg, was UNCALLED FOR! Sulley may not have hated Randall, not at first, though Mike clearly did, and probably hated all of Randall's like kind, too, and by that point in the movie, Sulley would have been easily pursuaded to take up that banner of hatred/racism. pitbulllady ......Ok... I never ONCE said that what Sully did to Randall was right... nor do I think what Randall did to Sully was right. All I said was that Sully does not bother me. While you make some excellent points, what you said doesn't bother me, it's the way it was directed at me that irks me. I was merely expressing my opinion, there was no need to attack me for my opinions. Yes attack. You may not have intended for it to sound like an attack, the fact is it does. Contradiction or disagreement do not bother me by all means, express yourself that's why we're here. But don't just rant at me just because of my individual opinion.
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Post by nauticusvergil on Feb 12, 2006 22:09:06 GMT -5
Alright, fight nice people, everyone's entitled to their opinions here. We're all friends here after all.
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Post by vladimirgg on Feb 12, 2006 22:43:28 GMT -5
Oy. Good point.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 13, 2006 16:52:17 GMT -5
Yeah...I get a little worried we would lose someone because they think WE'RE hard....
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Post by vladimirgg on Feb 13, 2006 22:53:24 GMT -5
This sort of thing happens on boards, I can't very well run off just for this now can I?
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Post by RandallBoggs on Feb 14, 2006 15:25:23 GMT -5
^_^
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