CrazyDiamond
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
I'm shining!
Posts: 270
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Post by CrazyDiamond on May 5, 2013 7:44:03 GMT -5
Just found it. Just a link to your Tumblr post, though.
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 6, 2013 18:15:50 GMT -5
*chuckles* Oh jeez, I was doing my late rounds and found something funny. THIS assessment got on TvTropes. "Seems like Epileptic Trees at first, but reading the full article has the potential to blow minds." "THIS" assessment of what? You mean someone actually posted that psychological analysis of the MI characters on TvTropes.com? pitbulllady Consider "psychopath" and that it leads to YOUR Tumblr page Pitbulllady....yes heh heh.
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Post by pitbulllady on May 6, 2013 18:34:00 GMT -5
"THIS" assessment of what? You mean someone actually posted that psychological analysis of the MI characters on TvTropes.com? pitbulllady Consider "psychopath" and that it leads to YOUR Tumblr page Pitbulllady....yes heh heh. Yeah, but TvTropes got it wrong...they have always referred to RANDALL as the psychopath, which is not true AT ALL, while ignoring the REAL psychopath, MIKE! Hopefully, at least, someone will take the time to read the actual post and see the truth, and realize the real reason behind Randall's actions, and also that he was NOT in full control of his own actions by the time he physically starts attacking the others. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 6, 2013 18:35:56 GMT -5
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myrobotlandlord
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
purple little shit is my guilty pleasure
Posts: 17
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Post by myrobotlandlord on May 23, 2013 7:10:20 GMT -5
Wooooow! That psychology analysis was fantastic. Spot on! I may study animation but I'm also very interested in psychology - especially character psychology (semiotics, linguistics). It's such an important thing when writing a story/script for movie. Freakin sweet man. Mike is totally a freakin psychopath wow.
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Post by pitbulllady on May 23, 2013 17:14:28 GMT -5
Wooooow! That psychology analysis was fantastic. Spot on! I may study animation but I'm also very interested in psychology - especially character psychology (semiotics, linguistics). It's such an important thing when writing a story/script for movie. Freakin sweet man. Mike is totally a freakin psychopath wow. I'm passing this update along, as the Psychologist in question is aware of the "spoilers" for MU and Randall's personality while in college, and did update her analysis of his issues as "Avoidant Personality Disorder" rather than Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder. CNPD usually starts out in adolescence, which means that by the time Randall was in college, he would already have been acting like a jerk much of the time and displaying the other characteristic signs. APD, on the other hand, usually starts in young adulthood, often due to repeated emotional rejection or a single profoundly emotionally traumatic humiliation, leading to the individual to have difficulties in trusting others or letting others get too close, emotionally. Like people with CNPD, people with APD tend to act like jerks quite often, and have "abrasive" or "edgy" personalities", because they are subconsciously trying to keep others at a distance, emotionally, because they are afraid of being hurt/humiliated/rejected again. They literally develop a phobia of that emotional pain, so they avoid situations where they are likely to encounter it-close friendships or more intimate personal relationships. They may either avoid places where they are likely to encounter people who might try to get close to them, like parties or bars, OR they might behave more aggressively to keep others at bay, because they essentially are in that "fight/flight" mode if others get too close. In MI, Randall refers to everyone on a last-name basis, which is an indicator of him maintaining a professional distance with everyone. Calling someone by their first name would indicate he's more comfortable with them in a closer setting, as a friend. For someone with APD to get that close, the other person has to REALLY work to earn their trust; they must know that the other person is not going to hurt them emotionally, and Randall has been hurt so many times, that gaining his trust would take tremendous dedication and effort and patience. Like people with CNPD, people with APD often come from dysfunctional and/or abusive family situations. Randall tries really hard in college to make friends, to impress people, to win them over and be accepted, and when it fails, he cannot overcome the emotional scars that leaves on him, thus he develops that personality issue as a means of emotional self-defense. It only serves, of course, to gain him a reputation for being snarky and bad-tempered and unpleasant to be around, which does not win him any allies in the MI workplace. He's able to work well with others...provided they don't try to get too "chummy" or intrusive, or in Fungus' case, remind Randall too much of his old self, the one he's wanting to forget. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 23, 2013 17:59:28 GMT -5
Hm. Suddenly I have more appreciation for the relationship I managed to make with Randall...
Ahem. Anyway, considering, as I've said, that humiliation is what did in his social life...the event in question that really hit him as a kid was such an event...and the....situation...made it all the more traumatic. It's really a shame that Randall didn't find anybody to really trust in his years...I suppose if he had what he has now...things would have gone different.
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Post by pitbulllady on May 23, 2013 18:33:30 GMT -5
Hm. Suddenly I have more appreciation for the relationship I managed to make with Randall... Ahem. Anyway, considering, as I've said, that humiliation is what did in his social life...the event in question that really hit him as a kid was such an event...and the....situation...made it all the more traumatic. It's really a shame that Randall didn't find anybody to really trust in his years...I suppose if he had what he has now...things would have gone different. There's so many "coulda, shoulda, woulda" situations with regards to Randall's MU life...so many "what if's". What if he had not joined ROR, but stuck with his friendship with Mike and joined OK instead, for instance? Just think of what a profound effect that ONE decision had on him! But the sad thing is WHY he joined them in the first place, what he was hoping to gain, which means that there had already been some profound emotional scars present to begin with, some things he was trying to overcome, that Randall was simply not happy being HIMSELF. Someone-probably many someones-had made Randall feel that being Randall was a Bad Thing, and if he wanted to be liked and be successful, he had to become someone other than the nerdy kid with the glasses. pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on May 23, 2013 18:40:36 GMT -5
Eversince knowing about MU...I figured to guess Randall's condition...I don't know psychological umm....conditions...but again, was right. The bad thing about that...is it isn't "right"...nobody should have to go through life like that...but it happens.
Actually it was partly Wazowski's fault in that...in the initial "break" of things. but...
Scars that probably came from early school years. I mean if he hadn't mastered his blending ability, he was easy target for bullies in school. And with his demeanor...he was all the sweeter to beat down.
*rubs temple* Being happy with himself...is probably one of the things Randall is going to have difficulty with his whole life. The guy just kept losing things, making decisions he thought was right, thought would pay off, but kept getting shoved down. Heck...one of my suggested themes for the sequel I'm working on involves, after seeing some things...him simply "stepping aside" and not making any real decisions any more. Because it seems, to him, every decision he makes just makes things worse in the end for him. Considering, at the time, all he has left is a beaten body...the next wrong decision might really be fatal. He just gets.......tired of how things go for him.
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Post by pitvipersnake on Nov 17, 2013 14:03:31 GMT -5
That psychological analysis is really fascinating. I've read it a few times and I think it's spot on. One of the staff at the Asperger's support group I go to (who does have a psychology degree) was talking about psychopaths so I showed her this analysis. She said it was really interesting and that she would see Monsters Inc. differently now. She also said she'd just realised that the ones being held up as heroes are someone with natural talent who finds life easy and a psychopath, while the one who works hard, has had a hard life and feels bad about himself is made out to be the villain. She said that was a terrible message to send children.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 18:21:05 GMT -5
She also said she'd just realised that the ones being held up as heroes are someone with natural talent who finds life easy and a psychopath, while the one who works hard, has had a hard life and feels bad about himself is made out to be the villain. She said that was a terrible message to send children. It's reasons like this that I feel so much for Randall...I mean, out of all the characters in MI, he was the one who really needed the most help. Unlike Mike or Sulley, he never seemed to have anyone there for him. If someone had reached out to Randall and he was able to redeem himself, it would have really added to the "tolerance, understanding, love and compassion" message of the movie. But in the end, he's worse off than Waternoose, who was behind the whole scheme instead of simply being a henchman, and who - unlike Randall - was a powerful and respected figure. I always thought it was a decidedly "un-Pixarish" message to have the most troubled character in the movie suffer the most like that.
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Post by pitbulllady on Nov 17, 2013 22:15:32 GMT -5
That psychological analysis is really fascinating. I've read it a few times and I think it's spot on. One of the staff at the Asperger's support group I go to (who does have a psychology degree) was talking about psychopaths so I showed her this analysis. She said it was really interesting and that she would see Monsters Inc. differently now. She also said she'd just realised that the ones being held up as heroes are someone with natural talent who finds life easy and a psychopath, while the one who works hard, has had a hard life and feels bad about himself is made out to be the villain. She said that was a terrible message to send children. And your Psychologist friend is also very correct-it WAS a very, very wrong message to send. We see in MU that Randall was NOT inherently evil nor even that competitive and we also see it established that Sulley DID live a rather privileged life due to his identity as Bill Sullivan's son. Everyone knew of his father, and treated Sulley with that "cult of personality", bowing down to him and letting him get by with things that no one else would have gotten by with. I have no doubt that this is how Randall always saw things, and not only would he have thought that Sulley got all those perks based on his family name, but he also would have known Sulley as a cheater. When things like what we see on the Scare Floor in MI take place, with Sulley getting 100 points for filling his Scream canister while Randall only gets 75 for doing the exact same thing, why WOULDN'T Randall naturally assume that Sulley was cheating like mad and getting away with it, that all of Sulley's success was earned dishonestly, having known him to cheat and get awarded unfairly in the past? The sad thing is, Sulley had no clue that Randall felt this way. He didn't know what had happened to Randall in that Scare Games competition, only that Randall lost. Sulley had no idea that HE had caused Randall to lose directly. He is clueless as to all those little things he did in college that would have cemented in Randall's mind that James P. Sullivan is NOT really a nice guy after all. Randall knows that something unethical is taking place with the Scare Board, and he's right. He just does not realize who is actually behind it and puts the blame on Sulley. He knows he can't beat a cheater at his own game, so he's out to prove his own worth by some other means, by-passing the Scare Floor altogether. It's so irritating when people say that Randall got what he deserved in MU, that he brought it all upon himself. What did he do to cause those cupcakes to fall on his face, resulting in painful humiliation? Why did he deserve that? He was trying to make friends, to get others to like him-when did that become a horrible crime? So many people are caught in the Cult of Mike after MU, practically worshiping him for his perseverance, but fail to see how obsessive he was. They fail to see how Mike shuns friendship and camaraderie, has no interest in belonging to a social group unless it's to glorify himself and his imagined Scare talent(which is why he got p***ed that ROR had no interest in him), and absolutely cannot empathize with others. Mike brushes off Randall's fear, because he cannot fathom being afraid of pursuing a Scaring major, something he's eaten, slept and drank since first grade. He gives Randall poor advice, to lose his glasses, not once thinking that Randall wore those thick-lensed glasses for a REASON. All Mike can see is how they'd impact Randall's Scaring, because that's all Mike can see, period: Scaring. PEOPLE do not matter to him at all. They are either tools/implements for achieving what HE wants, or they are roadblocks/impediments to achieving what he wants. Mike literally has to LEARN how to look at others as people, not just in terms of a Scare ability, and has to learn how to BE a friend, but of course, it was too late for any friendship between him and Randall. Randall had long since been written off, as if he'd never existed. Why would people want to admire someone like Mike? I can easily understand why the other kids on his field trip didn't want to partner with him; even at that age, cute or not, he was self-centered, disobedient and disrespectful to authority and did whatever he pleased, rules be damned. Fortunately, Frank McCray was a very patient and kind soul, otherwise he could have been creating his own "Syndrome" had he gotten really angry with Mike on the Scare Floor that day. The only difference there is that Mike lacks the intellect of Buddy Pine. The obsessive nature and disregard for anyone else is there, though. Mike is a good example of what we Southerners mean when we say, "he'd be dangerous if he had any sense". But few fans can see that. They only see cute little Mikey with his nickel and his oversized MU ball cap and his braces, struggling against the world, when the world was right about him all along. Randall, meanwhile, is the one STILL hated, accused of "abandoning" a "friend", who never cared one rat's rectum about him in the first place. Randall is one who gets hurt and humiliated, not once, but over and over, through no fault of his own. He never has ANYONE to stand by him, to stick up for him, to really believe in HIM, as a person, not just as a potential Scarer. No one wants to hang around with him just to be with HIM. Even once he's in ROR, they NEVER talk to him except to either give him orders or chew him out for losing. He apparently is not allowed to speak to them, either, since we never hear any discourse between Randall and any of the others in ROR. How sad is it that someone is so desperate to fit in and be accepted by SOMEONE else, that he'd allow himself to be treated like that, that he's trade any self-respect he had for that false, and brief, sense of success fostered by the Scare Games wins? This is someone who was, by the time we see him in MI, crying out for help in the only way he could, but instead gets hate and punishment. It is perhaps, after all, a sad but true commentary on how people suffering from emotional and mental illness/disorders are treated, not as people who are really suffering and in need of help and compassion, but as criminals, as things to be punished. IF that's not a "tragic back-story", I don't know what is. pitbulllady
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Post by seafoamonster on Nov 25, 2013 17:20:08 GMT -5
I can relate.
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Post by pitbulllady on Dec 10, 2013 18:01:08 GMT -5
Another clue as to Mike's identity as a bona fide psychopath is the fact that Mike DOES NOT CHANGE. MU Mike and MI Mike are the same, with the only differences being easily chalked up to the perception of the individual whose POV is being presented. Sulley sees Mike as a bit less courageous that Mike sees himself, which is why Mike comes across as a coward in MI. MU was told from Mike's POV, and Mike clearly could find absolutely NO fault in himself at all. In both movies, Mike is extremely self-centered and believes that he himself is the solution to everyone's problems, that he can, in the words of my late great aunt Irene, "do wonders and fart angels". Mike is perfect in his own eye. We see that viewpoint expressed in MU, when he tells the OK's that "we have everything we need to win right here", pointing to himself, and innocent Scott says, "heart", only to be corrected immediately by Mike-"No, ME!" We see that same self-aggrandizing in MI when he says things like, "I'm so romantic, I should just marry myself! Both are seen largely as a joke by the audience, but Mike sincerely believes that. Sulley changes drastically from MU to MI, and so does Randall, but not in a positive way, but it is normal for people to change from the time they're in college to their late 20's and early 30's. NOT changing, remaining essentially the same and with the same personal outlooks, is what's not normal.
pitbulllady
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Post by pitvipersnake on Dec 11, 2013 15:06:46 GMT -5
I always had Mike at the top of my list of 'most annoying characters in all of fiction'. So I was very puzzled when I first heard about MU, when all the books said he was a hard-working A grade student. It seemed like he'd had a personality transplant between MI and MU, with him getting less intelligent and mature as he got older. (Sulley being a lazy teenager then growing up made sense.) The shift in perspective explains that. MU is told from Mike's POV, and Mike is rather a unreliable narrator, so of course he'd exaggerate his own bravery and intelligence. Thanks for explaining that.
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