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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 9, 2013 17:17:59 GMT -5
and not, I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Sarcasm mode is OFF for the time being. As I mentioned in the Fan Art section, I have been privileged to have shared with me some notes made by a professional Psychologist, who happens to be a movie buff and enjoys analyzing movie characters. Now, this person also is a professor at a university and is often called upon to be an expert witness in criminal court cases, so out of respect for her and the person who relayed this information to me, a personal friend of hers, I am not at liberty at this time to state who she is or where she works. I have been given permission to re-post this here on the condition that I did not give out that information, so I am adhering to that. Those of you who know me know that I do not just post stuff like this without a source, so you can rest assured that this is not one of those "I know someone who works at Pixar" threads. This person is NOT associated with Pixar or Disney at all. Be sure to read her analyses of the characters and their relationships, and bear in mind that she actually wrote these notes back in 2007. Some of it will sound very familiar, while some might shock you, especially if you're a fan of Mike Wazowski.
Here goes:
CHARACTERS
James P. Sullivan: - Despite being the best scarer, Sullivan is, in fact, a shy, introverted and very emotional person, possibly intelectual. He is socially awkward and tries to avoid unnecessary interpersonal interactions. Being the best scarer, he often finds himself in the center of attention and doesn't feel comfortable about it; his popularity is a byproduct of his success that he could live without. He isn't competitive; could easily be the second or hundredth scarer - he doesn't care. He plays a submissive role in his friendship with Mike.
Mike Wazowski - A psychopath. [Mike is a looney-tunes character in an otherwise ordinary world. We DO have such characters in real life, and psychology has a special name for them: psychopaths]. Mike's emotions are shallow, short-lived and often egocentric. He lives a parasitic life on Sulley. Is a pathological liar of poor quality, yet still manages to be charming and manipulative. Fails to accept responsibility. Lacks any long-term goals. Has and elevated sense of self-worth. His physical inferiority to almost everyone else is probably the only reason why he appears and acts in a benign way. Instead of inflicting physical damage himself, he manipulates Sulley to do so. Dominant role in his friendship with Sulley. [Contrary to popular Hollywood-fueled opinions, psychopaths are generally not genius comic book villains. Often, they are of under average intelligence, something that severely impacts their pathological lying skills. Oh, and by the way - I have Mike's picture in the powerpoint for my lectures to remind students just how hard it is to identify a psychopath.]
Henry J. Waternoose - Unscrupulous, amoral, deceptive, exploitive and dominant, inherently antisocial. He keeps an image of a fatherly figure as a facade he uses to manipulate people. Grew up as a child overly praised by his parents. His emotional attachment to the company, his sincere teaching of scare recruits as well as his intelligence hint that he is not a psychopath, but is an unprincipled narcissist - a form of narcissistic personality disorder (nNPD). Needless to say, he is dominant in his relationship with Randall [More on that later.]
Randall Boggs - Suffers from a compensatory NPD that stems from a deep inferiority complex. Probably comes from a dysfunctional family with a very weak or submissive fatherly figure. His inferiority complex must had had debilitating effects on him in the past, before he developed the disorder that conceals it. Inside, he is a very shy intellectual who feels abandoned and incompetent, searching for a fatherly figure he could impress and love. Submissive to Waternoose, dominant to Fungus.
RELATIONSHIPS:
Mike & Sulley - Sulley, being the socially awkward person he is, has troubles forming lasting relationships. Mike represents a certainty to him. He mistakes his parasitic nature for friendliness. Mike's reactions to Sulley's criticisms often consist of emotional extortion. When his strategy fails in Iceman's cave, Mike is visibly surprised. Over the course of the movie, Mike first views Boo as a threat to his dominance over Sulley, but then recognizes that he could instead embrace her as a tool to further strengthen it.
Randall & Waternoose - In the past, Randall has probably mistaken some of Waternoose's casual acts for a display of sincere fatherly-like love, and got attached to him. He wants to please him as a son wants to please his dad. His jealousy of Sullivan has nothing to do with scaring or scare leading, but with Sulley being Waternoose's "favorite son". Randall reacts aggressively to Sulley's success only when the success is witnessed or appreciated by Waternoose. Waternoose is very well aware of Randall's feelings towards him and ruthlessly exploits them. When the two argue over banishing Sulley, Waternoose plays his role and verbally attacks and insults him in a way father talks to his prodigal son, not in a way a boss talks to his undisciplined employee. Randall is blind to the exploitation, as he is still daydreaming about a moment of catharsis when Waternoose embraces him as a son. In the second extractor scene, Randall mentions that MI will not need any scarers and turns away, silently expecting a compliment since he had mistaken Waternoose's banishment of Sulley as an act of embracing him; he receives an insult instead and we can see him boiling under the hood. When Waternoose finally engages Randall with the task of killing Sullivan, Randall sees this as the final chance to prove himself worthy to Waternoose, loses contact with reality and effectively goes into a psychosis, not caring about anything or anyone but the task Waternoose had given him. His unnecessary monologue before his unsuccessful attempt to murder Sulley is clearly a sign of psychosis and detachment from reality, since wasting time isn't something the stoic and cunning Randall we'd been presented earlier would do.
Sulley & Randall - These two get along pretty well, actually. Sulley doesn't want to engage Randall in any way and is clearly unaware of Randall's feelings for Waternoose. Even when attacked by Randall after rescuing Boo, Sulley tries to run away instead of seeking vengeance. Sulley's act of banishing Randall therefore seems to be a result of Mike's ultimate manipulation, rather than his own free decision. Ironically, it gives Mike another blackmailing weapon against Sulley in the future, which makes sense given Mike's psychopathic personality. I am 100% sure that Sulley will eventually develop some mental problems because of this, as he is, by nature, a non-aggressive and smart person. Over time, he will understand that Waternoose ruthlessly manipulated Randall to the point of insanity, and will hate himself for worsening his situation rather then helping him.
Sulley & Waternoose - Their relationship feels staged on both sides. It is clear that Sulley feels awkward when talking to Waternoose, as he doesn't like his fatherly approach, but on the other hand respects him, trusts him and tries to be nice to him.
Randall and Fungus -* Fungus is a shy and naturally submissive person with impaired social skills and empathy, possibly suffering from some kind of mild autism. Randall's relationship with Fungus is very personal, as Fungus constantly reminds him of his inner self, worsening his condition. Working with Fungus brings Randall relief, however, as Fungus serves as a perfect lightning rod for his hatred towards himself. Essentially, blaming Fungus enables Randall to release steam without hurting his ego or admitting that he has issues.
Other Notes: "Now that Mike is safe and Randall's nowhere to be found, let's just tie poor Fungus to the chair. Hopefully Randall makes it back in time so he won't suffocate to death."
-"CEO does not remember the looks of his own simulator. Senile dementia?"
- About Roz:"Undercover investigation of a company's CEO via regular paperwork for workers. Brilliant."
-"What the hell had Snowman done that got him banished? He seems to be a nice guy. Is he some sort of Ted Bundy or what?"
-"Sullivan throws the extractor at three other monsters. Ironically, the only one who almost gets killed is Fungus - again!"
Actually, Roz and the CDA were NOT investigating the CEO, though, since she specifically does state that they "had no idea it went all the way up to Waternoose". I figured that they knew Randall was involved, and almost certainly suspected MIKE due to his reluctance to turn in HIS paperwork, which would have raised suspicions that he was trying to hide something. Now that the author mentions the possibility of Fungus having some mild form of autism, his behavior makes more sense, especially how he seems to lack empathy for what Randall is going through. He's not intentionally being cruel; he just does not relate to that, to others' misery. My own brother is like that, actually. Most of the time he just cannot see anyone's perspective but his, like if he wants to stay up at 3:00 am and make as much noise as possible when *I* have to get up to go to work at 5 am, and if I complain it's ME who has the problem, not him. When Randall arrives in the basement/refinery with what he thinks is "the kid", you can hear Fungus in the background, just working out complex math problems in his head...out loud. To no one in particular. As they are working on the machine and on the Scare Floor, note that Fungus is constantly talking numbers, numbers of various parts, or amounts of needed adjustments to this or that, but always numbers. That explanation really sounds plausible, more plausible than mine, actually, once that topic was brought up.
Someone on Tumblr even wrote a fanfic about how Randall was subconsciously bothered by Fungus' glasses because they reminded him of a past he wanted to forget, a part of HIMSELF he wanted to bury.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 9, 2013 19:36:39 GMT -5
We are professionals 0_- ....Oh, accredited professionals.
Hmm, Sullivan sounds right. Though it seems his younger self is nearly the polar opposite. Maybe when he went through that "change", his social awkwardness came out as a way to prevent himself from falling in with a bad crowd again. (though that change may have involved other persons whom he may have hurt, leading to him to clean up his act). Submissive...(insert joke here)
Ps...tahaha! Remember folks...PROFESSIONAL OPINION ^0^ First thing I think people think when they hear someone is a psychopath, they think killer. Ok, for most times that's probably true, but it's also a chaotic whack to their emotions. Then again... Lacks any long-term goals...maybe that's the whole scarer thing. He probably DID plan to be one, but got this whole "your not going to be one" grounded into him by everybody (maybe even Randall in a light way). So yeah, social-encounters could have affected this one. TAH...Oh my tahaha in a powerpoint...wow...
The narcissism makes sense. The "old gang" (including me and you PBL) once were involved in a story that was set a long time ago (considering Waternoose's age, he was still around while we were dealing with the "grandparents" or so of the others). A theme involving Randall was that reptiles were basically the african americans of the time. So...crap-dead job and servants. You get the picture. Considering the Waternooses were put in charge of Monsters Inc. for three generations, they have garnered quite a lifestyle. Reminds me of Shaun Tucker (got the first name wrong I'm sure) from Full Metal Alchemist. The guy wanted to keep his certification and lifestyle so bad that he used his own daughter to.......well lets just say his daughter was no longer his daughter anymore, physically.
As his friend, I feel awkward commenting on a PO of Randall's emotional state, especially now ^_^; Guessing though he was hiding it one way...showing his shy intellectual side and trying to be friendly and sociable...till he got slammed and went the other extreme.
Yeah, parasitic nature is how I described it myself...if the Boom! comic got one thing right, it was Sullivan's surprising revelation and anger-burst-out at Wazowski, realizing that he was being used to stroke his ego. Oooh jeez, Boo as a tool.
"Favorite son" *shivers* Imagine those two as half-brothers...*shivers again* That's a good way to put the insulting. It was more personal than employee-based. Ah yes the second one...think we all know the "other reaction" to that thanks to the pic I found.... A psychosis...well I call it differently in Randall's case as seen but...it's nice to see that ending comment, that what Randall was doing at the time wasn't really "him" (sure, he wasn't really himself either...but there's the shy nerdy Randall and the more seclusive rough one...they're both ok. But then there's the third one, the psychosis bit.)
FINALLY someone agrees. Nearly everybody outside the fanship say that Sullivan and Randall are the ones who are at each others throats, when they're not. I'll actually be exploring the effects of what he had done to Randall in the sequel I'm working through. All is not well with Sullivan, and it's not just his CEO overhaul.
Honest enough description of the relationship between the two.
Well releasing steam does seem to have been a need for Randall at the time. Though I can tell this description may be missing the fact that Fungus may actually take joy in rattling Randall? === Think Waternoose was too far gone to notice anything familiar in his factory ^0^ Roz does seem to have the experience... AB's banishment is interesting...considering he might be in MU.... Yeah that was a wild move 0_0 In some ways Sullivan could have killed people first 0_0
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 9, 2013 20:12:56 GMT -5
I have discussed my theory that Fungus enjoys "rattling Randall", as you put it, something I myself believed, BUT, when I read the Psychologist's analysis of Fungus, in which she described him as having a "mild form of autism", it hit me. Fungus is not necessarily ENJOYING Randall's lashing out at him; he honestly does not understand that his actions are causing those outbursts because he is unable to empathize with Randall! He literally cannot grasp what emotional turmoil Randall is experiencing. I know I've mentioned on here before that my brother has Asperger's, a form of autism, which probably is what Fungus has. The fascination with numbers and math processes is something I see in both, along with Fungus' seemingly endless chatter about often nothing at all. My brother is often unable to empathize with others, as well. For instance, he will play music and make as much noise as he can at 3 in the morning, knowing that there are two other people in the house, one of whom has to get up for work at 5 am(me). Yet, if anyone says anything to him about that, he gets angry because WE are infringing on HIS choice. He is not able to understand how we feel so he doesn't CARE, and that's part of his condition. Fungus CANNOT understand what Randall is feeling, so he continues to do things to set him off. Randall doesn't know that Fungus is unable to empathize with him, so he assumes that Fungus is being insubordinate or just a little jerk. Plus, to make things worse, Fungus reminds him too much of geeky, nerdy, timid little Randy and represents some deep inner hurt that Randall wants to forget.
Now, yes, most people associate psychopaths with murderers, and when you think about it, Mike IS a murderer, that is, if Randall died in that trailer. Regardless, though, Mike INTENDED for him to die, and die painfully, without mercy. Mike will have no regrets or remorse over what he did, and led Sulley to do in the heat of anger. Mike knew fully well who was in that trailer and what they would do when Randall showed up, I have no doubts whatsoever. Celia Mae better GTFO while she can, and Sulley better learn to watch his back. If HE does something to compromise his CEO position or reveal what he and Mike did to Randall, risking MIKE being punished and losing his "good thing" with his new-found Comedian success, or if another monster shows up to give him some honest competition in that field, that nasty side is going to show up again. Like my brother-in-law, who is also a confirmed psychopath, the only thing that keeps Mike Wazowski from being really a threat is the fact that he's not that smart. It's like the old saying goes, "if he had any sense he'd be dangerous". A Psychologist clearly would recognize that Mike is someone fully capable of murdering another, in cold blood, KNOWING exactly what he was doing and KNOWING it was wrong, and just not give a %^&*. At some point, that cruel and heinous act is going to drive a wedge between Mike and Sulley's friendship, realistically speaking.
pitbulllady
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 9, 2013 20:24:40 GMT -5
Hmm...the only two clinks with me with it is him smiling as he's enterting the bathroom and his reaction on the Laugh Floor at the end...
Actually, in my sequel workings...I don't see Wazowski telling Celia what happened to Randall. She doesn't know. Boy if she did, she certainly wouldn't agree.
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Post by TheOnePistol on Apr 9, 2013 21:56:03 GMT -5
Hmm, very VERY interesting. Some of that does make sense and actually seems fairly accurate.
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Post by goldenponcho on Apr 9, 2013 23:48:28 GMT -5
Those are pretty interesting and a lot of that definitely makes a lot of sense. Something you've got to remember, though, is that these characters are....well...characters, not real people. For example, if a real person acted the way Mike does, yeah, they'd probably be borderline psychotic. But you also have to look at it from the perspective of the writers. Personalities in cartoons are exaggerated beyond what would be normal for a real person. A lot of the traits that make Mike seem somewhat psychotic are part of the intended humor in his character. He's supposed to seem ridiculous, a sort of lovable jerk (at least, intended to be lovable). Like you said, Pitbulllady, he's basically a Looney Tunes character. So is he intended to be psychotic within the Monster's Inc world? Personally, I don't think so. He does have sort of a parasitic relationship with Sully, but I don't think he manipulates him consciously, at least not in situations where he thinks it will really hurt Sully.
And as far as Mike wanting Randall dead, I'm not so sure that was his intention. The people at Pixar are smart enough to know better than to glorify outright murder. (I also highly doubt that Randall was supposed to have died at the end. Sure other Pixar movies have killed off their villains, but none were done for laughs like Randall's banishment scene was. I don't think they'd be THAT cruel. But that's all another discussion.)
So I guess what I'm getting at is, I agree with the analyses, but I think the way the characters fit into their world, and likewise into a fictional story, is different than how they would fit into reality. Not that I'm defending all Mike's actions. His and Sully's banishment of Randall really was wrong, even within their world, but I don't think he's a terrible person, just like Randall's not a terrible person.
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Post by mintygreen on Apr 10, 2013 0:21:07 GMT -5
Mike has no long term goals?
Well, I think MU has proved that wrong though already...since we see really young Mike wanting to be a scarer and having that dream for many years.
So he does have long-term goals.
Anyway, I don't think Mike is really a psychopath. I agree with goldenponcho that personalities are sometimes exaggerated more in cartoon characters than they are in reality.
Of course it is true that Mike is the more dominant one in his friendship with Sulley....and Mike does tend to be the one who aims a lot of negative stuff at Randall. Mike possibly just doesn't understand empathy very well.....and maybe just doesn't understand exactly why Randall sometimes comes across the way he does, because he doesn't understand the reasoning behind it and therefore just sees Randall as a total villain.
I feel like maybe Mike could be nicer to Randall if someone explained Randall's situation better to him....because I'm not sure if Mike really notices it/is good at figuring it out.....and Sulley doesn't seem intelligent enough to explain it to Mike. Sulley clearly has no idea either.
I mean, obviously what Mike and Sulley did to Randall at the end though is really extreme and impossible to completely forgive(although I admit I can't completely hate their characters mostly because I just find it really hard to actually totally hate anyone....it's very very rare that I can bring myself to completely hate anyone). And I do blame Mike more for it since it always felt like Sulley was going along with the flow/always listening to Mike. It always seemed more like it was Mike's idea to banish Randall through that door.
But I really think someone else needed to wake both of them up about Randall's real situation since I don't think either of them had the ability to realize it, it seems. It's possible that they might have been more sympathetic to him otherwise.
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 10, 2013 5:21:58 GMT -5
Those are pretty interesting and a lot of that definitely makes a lot of sense. Something you've got to remember, though, is that these characters are....well...characters, not real people. For example, if a real person acted the way Mike does, yeah, they'd probably be borderline psychotic. But you also have to look at it from the perspective of the writers. Personalities in cartoons are exaggerated beyond what would be normal for a real person. A lot of the traits that make Mike seem somewhat psychotic are part of the intended humor in his character. He's supposed to seem ridiculous, a sort of lovable jerk (at least, intended to be lovable). Like you said, Pitbulllady, he's basically a Looney Tunes character. So is he intended to be psychotic within the Monster's Inc world? Personally, I don't think so. He does have sort of a parasitic relationship with Sully, but I don't think he manipulates him consciously, at least not in situations where he thinks it will really hurt Sully. And as far as Mike wanting Randall dead, I'm not so sure that was his intention. The people at Pixar are smart enough to know better than to glorify outright murder. (I also highly doubt that Randall was supposed to have died at the end. Sure other Pixar movies have killed off their villains, but none were done for laughs like Randall's banishment scene was. I don't think they'd be THAT cruel. But that's all another discussion.) So I guess what I'm getting at is, I agree with the analyses, but I think the way the characters fit into their world, and likewise into a fictional story, is different than how they would fit into reality. Not that I'm defending all Mike's actions. His and Sully's banishment of Randall really was wrong, even within their world, but I don't think he's a terrible person, just like Randall's not a terrible person. Have you seen the screen caps of Randall's "banishment" scene, in which you can clearly see a very large, BLOODY butcher knife and a meat cleaver hanging on the wall of the trailer right behind Mike? There is no way way in hell HE didn't see that or make a connection between that and what would happen to Randall! Part of Mike's job was to know where doors led and if any adults were present. I do not for one second believe he picked THAT particular door at random! He knew perfectly well where it led and what would happen to Randall. pitbulllady
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Post by goldenponcho on Apr 10, 2013 8:31:39 GMT -5
Those are pretty interesting and a lot of that definitely makes a lot of sense. Something you've got to remember, though, is that these characters are....well...characters, not real people. For example, if a real person acted the way Mike does, yeah, they'd probably be borderline psychotic. But you also have to look at it from the perspective of the writers. Personalities in cartoons are exaggerated beyond what would be normal for a real person. A lot of the traits that make Mike seem somewhat psychotic are part of the intended humor in his character. He's supposed to seem ridiculous, a sort of lovable jerk (at least, intended to be lovable). Like you said, Pitbulllady, he's basically a Looney Tunes character. So is he intended to be psychotic within the Monster's Inc world? Personally, I don't think so. He does have sort of a parasitic relationship with Sully, but I don't think he manipulates him consciously, at least not in situations where he thinks it will really hurt Sully. And as far as Mike wanting Randall dead, I'm not so sure that was his intention. The people at Pixar are smart enough to know better than to glorify outright murder. (I also highly doubt that Randall was supposed to have died at the end. Sure other Pixar movies have killed off their villains, but none were done for laughs like Randall's banishment scene was. I don't think they'd be THAT cruel. But that's all another discussion.) So I guess what I'm getting at is, I agree with the analyses, but I think the way the characters fit into their world, and likewise into a fictional story, is different than how they would fit into reality. Not that I'm defending all Mike's actions. His and Sully's banishment of Randall really was wrong, even within their world, but I don't think he's a terrible person, just like Randall's not a terrible person. Have you seen the screen caps of Randall's "banishment" scene, in which you can clearly see a very large, BLOODY butcher knife and a meat cleaver hanging on the wall of the trailer right behind Mike? There is no way way in hell HE didn't see that or make a connection between that and what would happen to Randall! Part of Mike's job was to know where doors led and if any adults were present. I do not for one second believe he picked THAT particular door at random! He knew perfectly well where it led and what would happen to Randall. pitbulllady Looking at that screenshot again, it didn't look to me like blood on the knife. I think that might be a shadow because it's in the shape of the bevel on the blade. Could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me. I think the purpose of that was to establish that these people were "red necks", and if anything, bring in some dark humor to people who noticed it. I don't think they meant for the audience to take it so far as to think Randall would be butchered, though. That just doesn't seem to go along with the tone of that scene. Plus, while they're not canon, both the Boom comics and the Ride and Go Seek ride brought Randall back, so that sort of suggests they didn't intend for him to have died. Not to mention, now we're going to get Randall's back story of him as a nerdy college student. I doubt they would do that for a character who was supposed to die a bloody death in the next movie. As far as Mike is concerned, I don't know, maybe he noticed the knives. He didn't really seem to take a look at what was inside when he opened it onscreen, though. He probably didn't think anything about what was on the other side, as he would just assume it's a normal kid's room. It seems to me he just picked a door at random just to get rid of Randall as quickly as possible. But that's just what it seemed like to me.
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Post by pitbulllady on Apr 10, 2013 10:28:19 GMT -5
Have you seen the screen caps of Randall's "banishment" scene, in which you can clearly see a very large, BLOODY butcher knife and a meat cleaver hanging on the wall of the trailer right behind Mike? There is no way way in hell HE didn't see that or make a connection between that and what would happen to Randall! Part of Mike's job was to know where doors led and if any adults were present. I do not for one second believe he picked THAT particular door at random! He knew perfectly well where it led and what would happen to Randall. pitbulllady Looking at that screenshot again, it didn't look to me like blood on the knife. I think that might be a shadow because it's in the shape of the bevel on the blade. Could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me. I think the purpose of that was to establish that these people were "red necks", and if anything, bring in some dark humor to people who noticed it. I don't think they meant for the audience to take it so far as to think Randall would be butchered, though. That just doesn't seem to go along with the tone of that scene. Plus, while they're not canon, both the Boom comics and the Ride and Go Seek ride brought Randall back, so that sort of suggests they didn't intend for him to have died. Not to mention, now we're going to get Randall's back story of him as a nerdy college student. I doubt they would do that for a character who was supposed to die a bloody death in the next movie. As far as Mike is concerned, I don't know, maybe he noticed the knives. He didn't really seem to take a look at what was inside when he opened it onscreen, though. He probably didn't think anything about what was on the other side, as he would just assume it's a normal kid's room. It seems to me he just picked a door at random just to get rid of Randall as quickly as possible. But that's just what it seemed like to me. There was a good reason why the people in that trailer, that kid at least, had Cajun accents, and the background clearly was in a Louisiana bayou. It is pretty common knowledge that people in that part of the world kill and eat "gators". Most people also know that a shovel is a common implement for dispatching "reptiles". It was Mike's job to know where the doors lead; possibly the kid in that trailer was on of Sulley' s scare kids, so Mike knew what kind of people they were. I do not believe that he just picked that door at random. As for the Boom! Comics being canon, in those, Randall apparently never was thrown into the Human World at all, but just went on the run following the incident with Boo. Even though it is shown to take place four years later, Boo is still a toddler who has not aged. Ditto for the Japanese ride. Pixar HAS to now be aware Randall's popularity and the fact that not everyone bought that "Randall is evil" mantra, so they are changing up his image to reflect that awareness. When they made MI, they did not count on him appealing to so many fans. Pitbulllady
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Post by goldenponcho on Apr 10, 2013 12:41:01 GMT -5
Looking at that screenshot again, it didn't look to me like blood on the knife. I think that might be a shadow because it's in the shape of the bevel on the blade. Could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me. I think the purpose of that was to establish that these people were "red necks", and if anything, bring in some dark humor to people who noticed it. I don't think they meant for the audience to take it so far as to think Randall would be butchered, though. That just doesn't seem to go along with the tone of that scene. Plus, while they're not canon, both the Boom comics and the Ride and Go Seek ride brought Randall back, so that sort of suggests they didn't intend for him to have died. Not to mention, now we're going to get Randall's back story of him as a nerdy college student. I doubt they would do that for a character who was supposed to die a bloody death in the next movie. As far as Mike is concerned, I don't know, maybe he noticed the knives. He didn't really seem to take a look at what was inside when he opened it onscreen, though. He probably didn't think anything about what was on the other side, as he would just assume it's a normal kid's room. It seems to me he just picked a door at random just to get rid of Randall as quickly as possible. But that's just what it seemed like to me. There was a good reason why the people in that trailer, that kid at least, had Cajun accents, and the background clearly was in a Louisiana bayou. It is pretty common knowledge that people in that part of the world kill and eat "gators". Most people also know that a shovel is a common implement for dispatching "reptiles". It was Mike's job to know where the doors lead; possibly the kid in that trailer was on of Sulley' s scare kids, so Mike knew what kind of people they were. I do not believe that he just picked that door at random. As for the Boom! Comics being canon, in those, Randall apparently never was thrown into the Human World at all, but just went on the run following the incident with Boo. Even though it is shown to take place four years later, Boo is still a toddler who has not aged. Ditto for the Japanese ride. Pixar HAS to now be aware Randall's popularity and the fact that not everyone bought that "Randall is evil" mantra, so they are changing up his image to reflect that awareness. When they made MI, they did not count on him appealing to so many fans. Pitbulllady Even so, I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if they had intended for Randall to have actually died. I don't think they would have tried to sell an actual death scene as being funny, even if it was the bad guy. That just wouldn't fit with the tone of the movie, and I think the people at Pixar are smarter than to think comedically killing off any character so violently would be a good idea in a kids movie. I don't know, I guess even as a kid, I always took it that Randall got beaten up but ended up escaping.
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Post by RandallBoggs on Apr 10, 2013 18:23:58 GMT -5
One thing you should know Poncho is that the real world has it's fair share of "characters" too. Anybody remember Naked Cowboy? The guy at Times Square that was out there in a cowboy outfit stringing on his guitar? There are people in the world that can be looney and highly exaggerate, sometimes just for the sake of fun or making life fun for other people. Characters in film, though, suffer from a high degree of conicidence and irony. But, that too can be said of actual people.
I do think Wazowski manipulates Sullivan in some way. At the least he knows he's doing it sometimes, like if he were to use Sullivan as a shield against people he angered for isntance.
They did give the impression that he may have died, and that's all some people need. We, of course, know he didn't. If he DID, then yes, they would be murderers. BUT, another thing to remember is that Sullivan and Wazowski have that same thing too. THEY may have the impression that he's dead. Wazowski may not care, but Sullivan on the other hand would. In the case of Wazowski, he may have just come to the point that he's just ignoring things and may not realize what it is he's actually done. ===== Wazowski had long term goals in MU, yes Minty, but remember...he failed. He gets CRUSHED. In mental retaliation, he loses long-term goal making and becomes more...well...the descriptions up there.
I'm not sure if explaining things to Wazowski would work. I think he needs a demonstration. For instance, if Celia's life were in danger or something...something BIG that would snap him out of his own selfish persona. Something I'm pegging at in the sequel. ==== As said, the impression was that he may have died. But he didn't, that would be just...so wrong. Even MORE so as we now see he was once a sweet kid. The impression, however, will make a big impact on Sullivan. Which is a good thing actually...
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Post by goldenponcho on Apr 10, 2013 20:55:46 GMT -5
One thing you should know Poncho is that the real world has it's fair share of "characters" too. Anybody remember Naked Cowboy? The guy at Times Square that was out there in a cowboy outfit stringing on his guitar? There are people in the world that can be looney and highly exaggerate, sometimes just for the sake of fun or making life fun for other people. Characters in film, though, suffer from a high degree of conicidence and irony. But, that too can be said of actual people. I do think Wazowski manipulates Sullivan in some way. At the least he knows he's doing it sometimes, like if he were to use Sullivan as a shield against people he angered for isntance. They did give the impression that he may have died, and that's all some people need. We, of course, know he didn't. If he DID, then yes, they would be murderers. BUT, another thing to remember is that Sullivan and Wazowski have that same thing too. THEY may have the impression that he's dead. Wazowski may not care, but Sullivan on the other hand would. In the case of Wazowski, he may have just come to the point that he's just ignoring things and may not realize what it is he's actually done. ===== Wazowski had long term goals in MU, yes Minty, but remember...he failed. He gets CRUSHED. In mental retaliation, he loses long-term goal making and becomes more...well...the descriptions up there. I'm not sure if explaining things to Wazowski would work. I think he needs a demonstration. For instance, if Celia's life were in danger or something...something BIG that would snap him out of his own selfish persona. Something I'm pegging at in the sequel. ==== As said, the impression was that he may have died. But he didn't, that would be just...so wrong. Even MORE so as we now see he was once a sweet kid. The impression, however, will make a big impact on Sullivan. Which is a good thing actually... That's true there are some "characters" in real life. At the same time, they're not part of a fabricated children's story. They don't have a personality created by a writer to serve a bigger purpose. I guess what I'm saying is that the actual world they're set in sort of has more to do with how their actions read than the character themselves a lot of the time. Not sure if that makes sense? Sure, we have insane people in our world, but if we based a cartoon character on that insane person and put them in a world of other exaggerated personalities (not necessarily all of them have to be exaggerated, you've usually got the "straight man" like Sully), that character is relatively normal in that world. And I think in the world of Monsters Inc, there are enough exaggerated personalities around Mike's to normalize him somewhat. That is a good point about if Mike and Sully knew whether Randall died or not, though. I supposed they could have rationalized it with the fact that Randall did put Boo's life in danger. Not that that makes it ok, of course, but that could have been their line of thinking, at least Sully's, if nothing else.
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Watcher
Randall's Skivvy (0-299)
Posts: 205
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Post by Watcher on Apr 12, 2013 9:46:23 GMT -5
and not, I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Sarcasm mode is OFF for the time being. As I mentioned in the Fan Art section, I have been privileged to have shared with me some notes made by a professional Psychologist, who happens to be a movie buff and enjoys analyzing movie characters. Now, this person also is a professor at a university and is often called upon to be an expert witness in criminal court cases, so out of respect for her and the person who relayed this information to me, a personal friend of hers, I am not at liberty at this time to state who she is or where she works. I have been given permission to re-post this here on the condition that I did not give out that information, so I am adhering to that. Those of you who know me know that I do not just post stuff like this without a source, so you can rest assured that this is not one of those "I know someone who works at Pixar" threads. This person is NOT associated with Pixar or Disney at all. Be sure to read her analyses of the characters and their relationships, and bear in mind that she actually wrote these notes back in 2007. Some of it will sound very familiar, while some might shock you, especially if you're a fan of Mike Wazowski. Here goes: CHARACTERS James P. Sullivan: - Despite being the best scarer, Sullivan is, in fact, a shy, introverted and very emotional person, possibly intelectual. He is socially awkward and tries to avoid unnecessary interpersonal interactions. Being the best scarer, he often finds himself in the center of attention and doesn't feel comfortable about it; his popularity is a byproduct of his success that he could live without. He isn't competitive; could easily be the second or hundredth scarer - he doesn't care. He plays a submissive role in his friendship with Mike. Mike Wazowski - A psychopath. [Mike is a looney-tunes character in an otherwise ordinary world. We DO have such characters in real life, and psychology has a special name for them: psychopaths]. Mike's emotions are shallow, short-lived and often egocentric. He lives a parasitic life on Sulley. Is a pathological liar of poor quality, yet still manages to be charming and manipulative. Fails to accept responsibility. Lacks any long-term goals. Has and elevated sense of self-worth. His physical inferiority to almost everyone else is probably the only reason why he appears and acts in a benign way. Instead of inflicting physical damage himself, he manipulates Sulley to do so. Dominant role in his friendship with Sulley. [Contrary to popular Hollywood-fueled opinions, psychopaths are generally not genius comic book villains. Often, they are of under average intelligence, something that severely impacts their pathological lying skills. Oh, and by the way - I have Mike's picture in the powerpoint for my lectures to remind students just how hard it is to identify a psychopath.] Henry J. Waternoose - Unscrupulous, amoral, deceptive, exploitive and dominant, inherently antisocial. He keeps an image of a fatherly figure as a facade he uses to manipulate people. Grew up as a child overly praised by his parents. His emotional attachment to the company, his sincere teaching of scare recruits as well as his intelligence hint that he is not a psychopath, but is an unprincipled narcissist - a form of narcissistic personality disorder (nNPD). Needless to say, he is dominant in his relationship with Randall [More on that later.] Randall Boggs - Suffers from a compensatory NPD that stems from a deep inferiority complex. Probably comes from a dysfunctional family with a very weak or submissive fatherly figure. His inferiority complex must had had debilitating effects on him in the past, before he developed the disorder that conceals it. Inside, he is a very shy intellectual who feels abandoned and incompetent, searching for a fatherly figure he could impress and love. Submissive to Waternoose, dominant to Fungus. RELATIONSHIPS: Mike & Sulley - Sulley, being the socially awkward person he is, has troubles forming lasting relationships. Mike represents a certainty to him. He mistakes his parasitic nature for friendliness. Mike's reactions to Sulley's criticisms often consist of emotional extortion. When his strategy fails in Iceman's cave, Mike is visibly surprised. Over the course of the movie, Mike first views Boo as a threat to his dominance over Sulley, but then recognizes that he could instead embrace her as a tool to further strengthen it. Randall & Waternoose - In the past, Randall has probably mistaken some of Waternoose's casual acts for a display of sincere fatherly-like love, and got attached to him. He wants to please him as a son wants to please his dad. His jealousy of Sullivan has nothing to do with scaring or scare leading, but with Sulley being Waternoose's "favorite son". Randall reacts aggressively to Sulley's success only when the success is witnessed or appreciated by Waternoose. Waternoose is very well aware of Randall's feelings towards him and ruthlessly exploits them. When the two argue over banishing Sulley, Waternoose plays his role and verbally attacks and insults him in a way father talks to his prodigal son, not in a way a boss talks to his undisciplined employee. Randall is blind to the exploitation, as he is still daydreaming about a moment of catharsis when Waternoose embraces him as a son. In the second extractor scene, Randall mentions that MI will not need any scarers and turns away, silently expecting a compliment since he had mistaken Waternoose's banishment of Sulley as an act of embracing him; he receives an insult instead and we can see him boiling under the hood. When Waternoose finally engages Randall with the task of killing Sullivan, Randall sees this as the final chance to prove himself worthy to Waternoose, loses contact with reality and effectively goes into a psychosis, not caring about anything or anyone but the task Waternoose had given him. His unnecessary monologue before his unsuccessful attempt to murder Sulley is clearly a sign of psychosis and detachment from reality, since wasting time isn't something the stoic and cunning Randall we'd been presented earlier would do. Sulley & Randall - These two get along pretty well, actually. Sulley doesn't want to engage Randall in any way and is clearly unaware of Randall's feelings for Waternoose. Even when attacked by Randall after rescuing Boo, Sulley tries to run away instead of seeking vengeance. Sulley's act of banishing Randall therefore seems to be a result of Mike's ultimate manipulation, rather than his own free decision. Ironically, it gives Mike another blackmailing weapon against Sulley in the future, which makes sense given Mike's psychopathic personality. I am 100% sure that Sulley will eventually develop some mental problems because of this, as he is, by nature, a non-aggressive and smart person. Over time, he will understand that Waternoose ruthlessly manipulated Randall to the point of insanity, and will hate himself for worsening his situation rather then helping him. Sulley & Waternoose - Their relationship feels staged on both sides. It is clear that Sulley feels awkward when talking to Waternoose, as he doesn't like his fatherly approach, but on the other hand respects him, trusts him and tries to be nice to him. Randall and Fungus -* Fungus is a shy and naturally submissive person with impaired social skills and empathy, possibly suffering from some kind of mild autism. Randall's relationship with Fungus is very personal, as Fungus constantly reminds him of his inner self, worsening his condition. Working with Fungus brings Randall relief, however, as Fungus serves as a perfect lightning rod for his hatred towards himself. Essentially, blaming Fungus enables Randall to release steam without hurting his ego or admitting that he has issues. Other Notes: "Now that Mike is safe and Randall's nowhere to be found, let's just tie poor Fungus to the chair. Hopefully Randall makes it back in time so he won't suffocate to death." -"CEO does not remember the looks of his own simulator. Senile dementia?" - About Roz:"Undercover investigation of a company's CEO via regular paperwork for workers. Brilliant." -"What the hell had Snowman done that got him banished? He seems to be a nice guy. Is he some sort of Ted Bundy or what?" -"Sullivan throws the extractor at three other monsters. Ironically, the only one who almost gets killed is Fungus - again!" Actually, Roz and the CDA were NOT investigating the CEO, though, since she specifically does state that they "had no idea it went all the way up to Waternoose". I figured that they knew Randall was involved, and almost certainly suspected MIKE due to his reluctance to turn in HIS paperwork, which would have raised suspicions that he was trying to hide something. Now that the author mentions the possibility of Fungus having some mild form of autism, his behavior makes more sense, especially how he seems to lack empathy for what Randall is going through. He's not intentionally being cruel; he just does not relate to that, to others' misery. My own brother is like that, actually. Most of the time he just cannot see anyone's perspective but his, like if he wants to stay up at 3:00 am and make as much noise as possible when *I* have to get up to go to work at 5 am, and if I complain it's ME who has the problem, not him. When Randall arrives in the basement/refinery with what he thinks is "the kid", you can hear Fungus in the background, just working out complex math problems in his head...out loud. To no one in particular. As they are working on the machine and on the Scare Floor, note that Fungus is constantly talking numbers, numbers of various parts, or amounts of needed adjustments to this or that, but always numbers. That explanation really sounds plausible, more plausible than mine, actually, once that topic was brought up. Someone on Tumblr even wrote a fanfic about how Randall was subconsciously bothered by Fungus' glasses because they reminded him of a past he wanted to forget, a part of HIMSELF he wanted to bury. pitbulllady Okay- I- 100% believe in EVERY word said here- I was reading the entire thing- mouth open in awe--! This professional you've been talking to, Pitbulllady, is my hero! <3333 I'm currently writing a fic--- a BIG one- and this info has just made a few things click- perfectly into place! THANK YOU!!! BUT what I think's interesting- as some other people have pointed out- MU has changed a lot of this... Sulley is really outgoing, loud, wants-to-win, struggles with intellectual situations (judging by Mike beating him in tests, etc??)... Compared to his MI self- this seems like an unusual change... And Mike--- he has goals... as Mint said--- He's determined- intellectual... It's all... quite scary how different the characters are--- they're all going to have change so much to fit into the characters they were in MI... I'm SO curious to see how Pixar does it!! Anyway- Thanks again, Pit! This is gorgeous~ <333 I'm going to copy/paste this for future reference!
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Post by rauschele on Apr 23, 2013 3:47:03 GMT -5
Mike surely is a psychopath...he seems heartless like Randall, when Randall tries to murder Sulley.
I feel really sorry for the lizard, because Waternoose is such an ***. He manipulated him so badly... But do you really think that Randall dies in the trailer? Killilng by the hillbillies? Sorry for my bad english. I'll do my very best XD
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