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Post by lizardgirl on Jul 10, 2008 14:39:18 GMT -5
I'm all for Mike hating, believe you me, I am, but I might have to disagree with you on that one, pitbulllady.
Calling someone a 'creep', despite the fact that the word clearly originates from 'creepy', does not imply that the person saying it thinks the other person is actually creepy.
If you sort of see what I mean- 'creepy' could be used to describe reptiles (if someone had a particular thing against reptiles) so in that case, it works. But 'creep' does not necessarily imply that the person is reptillian in nature. A friend of mine called a guy that kept following her around at our College a 'creep', obviously not implying that she thought he was slimy, scaley or reptillian, but that she found him weird and eccentric.
Of course, although I don't think in this case Mike is demonstrating racist behaviour, there are other occassions which might imply that he has a dislike for reptillian Mons, such as when he says that he has 'allergies', or his nicknaming of Randall as 'Lizard-Boy'.
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V
Randall's Head Servant (300-799)
Personal Lover of Randall
Posts: 361
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Post by V on Jan 7, 2010 15:00:01 GMT -5
UGH! That was the ONE TIME that I hated those two guys! And YET, they call themselves the GOOD GUYS, yeah, what's so good about throwing a monster into the Human World to get killed... WHICH IS ILLEGAL?!?
Sorry Randy... "Well, at least I have my fans..."
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Post by TheOnePistol on Oct 26, 2010 0:04:35 GMT -5
Yeah! A mob! -your funny -how am I funny!? -Ridna Runner funny... -Oh...my god...thank you... ^_^ Ha! that was off of Family Guy, when they were mimicking Good Fellas! XD
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Post by seafoamonster on Jun 26, 2013 15:31:18 GMT -5
I was reading the MI storybook to my little brother one day, and they said Ran was a "creepy" monster! Then towards the end was the SCENE, and they all seemed so excited to get rid of him!! The book said was 'gone for good'?!?! ~SeaFoam
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 24, 2014 20:15:11 GMT -5
I blame all of this on Michael Eisner. Apparently HE was the one who made Randall a villain in Monsters, Inc. in the first place, but he did it JUST in the name of TRADITION. From his perspective: There's GOT to be another Disney Villain, even if the integral character dynamics strongly suggest more going on underneath.
I was 11 years old when I first saw the film, and I openly admit that the Randall banishing/torturing scene NEVER settled well with me... I always felt sorry for Randall. Now that I'm older, and have studied character dynamics in storytelling, I realize now that in actuality, Mike and Sulley did a HORRIBLE thing to Randall! It's actually disgusting to think that children who see this will find themselves laughing at Randall's expense, which is a short-sighted 'Disney' indoctrination from several of their films (like Toy Story 2), and STILL think Mike and Sulley are 'good guys'!
What is actually shown is an act of revenge, and I guess the 'Disney' logic at play is that since Mike and Sulley have 'sunnier' personalities than Randall, and since they have been 'LABELED' as the heroes, and Randall has been 'LABELED' as the villain, they are somehow justified in violating Randall's basic rights as a person (chameleon), but every child who sees this needs to take a moment to imagine themselves in Randall's shoes. There is NOTHING funny about what Mike and Sulley do to him... they basically put his life in mortal danger. If Randall were to end up dead because of them, that would actually make them guilty of MURDER.
If Disney has ANY moral fiber left, I would say they have the moral obligation of continuing the story in a third film; ensuring that Randall survives and returns to the Monster World, and have Mike and Sulley be held accountable for their actions. If poor Randall can find it in his heart to actually forgive those two after what they did to him, and ultimately befriend Mike and Sulley by the end, then BOY... Randall, you have a heart of gold.
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 24, 2014 22:55:30 GMT -5
Yes, what Mike and Sulley did amounted to a LYNCHING, a heinous crime in which two or more individuals take it upon themselves to inflict physical punishment, with intent to harm, a third individual, in retaliation for some real or perceived crime, without due process under law. Two wrongs do NOT make a right; hurting Randall because he had TRIED to hurt them is still revenge, and we see time and time again how that backfires and never is a good thing. Randall was as much a person in their world as they were, NOT a "chameleon", not a "lizard", not a "reptile". He is a MONSTER, and monsters consider themselves "people". They clearly do not live in a lawless society where anyone has the right to punish anyone else that see fit to punish, for whatever reasons. They have a legal system in place, with courts and judges and juries to decide on punishment of wrongdoers. By circumventing that, Mike and Sulley are no "heroes", just a couple of vigilantes. Their actions cannot be justified by any logic.
In the Circle 7 script, Randall actually winds up HELPING Mike to get back to the Monster World after Mike and Sulley part ways in the Human World and both wind up trapped here. Sulley chooses to strike out to find Boo, who has moved away, and Mike just wants to get back home. Keep in mind this was written long, long before MU was an idea in anyone's head, when Pixar no longer owned any rights to their own movies and had actually left Disney due to Eisner's refusal to give them a higher percentage of profit from their movies or give them the rights to their own characters, so THEY could make sequels, etc., and yet there was this script in which Mike and Randall team up and work together. I really, really would love to see that become a reality.
pitbulllady
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Post by randallsnape7 on Feb 25, 2014 2:28:01 GMT -5
Hey! Thanks for all this info about the 'Circle 7' scripts. That's actually encouraging... just to know that apparently, Randall has a history of being a good guy in there. I think you said 'Circle 7' was somehow dissolved or shut down or something. What precisely happens to those scripts and ideas? Are they still up for grabs in the future, or does the present state demand that an original story/script idea must be made in order for the friendship of Randall to become a reality?
How does that work, like within the Disney company?
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Post by pitbulllady on Feb 25, 2014 13:19:35 GMT -5
Hey! Thanks for all this info about the 'Circle 7' scripts. That's actually encouraging... just to know that apparently, Randall has a history of being a good guy in there. I think you said 'Circle 7' was somehow dissolved or shut down or something. What precisely happens to those scripts and ideas? Are they still up for grabs in the future, or does the present state demand that an original story/script idea must be made in order for the friendship of Randall to become a reality? How does that work, like within the Disney company? Circle 7 was a division of Walt Disney Feature Animation, so those scripts are still the property of Disney, and technically, since Pixar's John Lasseter is also head of Disney Feature Animation, they would be HIS property, as well. The problem is that Pixar didn't write them, so it's a matter of Pixar swallowing their pride and making a movie based on a screenplay that they didn't produce. They've done that before, with a screenplay from a guy named Brad Bird, and THAT turned out quite nicely for them, lol. The issue here, I think, will be the fact that this particular script was produced by a studio that was formed literally so that Michael Eisner could thumb his nose at Steve Jobs and Pixar, so there's more pride on the line here than had it been written by just some outside screenwriter. pitbulllady
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Post by luvrandall on May 7, 2014 19:25:35 GMT -5
I just watched that movie...well, up until the part where Randall gets banished and abused...I couldn't stop crying. I had to stop the movie and try to catch my breath. You know what I said when Fur Rug said "Looks like you're out of a job"? "Losing his job should be punishment enough, Sullivan!" I couldn't take the parts where he got hit by the bat by Boo and the door slamming on his fronds and all the other horrible stuff that I won't mention cause there's too much and I don't want to upset any of you or myself anymore than I already have. It was just too horrible. (And I also heard the conversation Randy had that one conversation with Waternoose aka the "making up for lost time" conversation).
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Post by pitbulllady on May 7, 2014 21:11:24 GMT -5
I just watched that movie...well, up until the part where Randall gets banished and abused...I couldn't stop crying. I had to stop the movie and try to catch my breath. You know what I said when Fur Rug said "Looks like you're out of a job"? "Losing his job should be punishment enough, Sullivan!" I couldn't take the parts where he got hit by the bat by Boo and the door slamming on his fronds and all the other horrible stuff that I won't mention cause there's too much and I don't want to upset any of you or myself anymore than I already have. It was just too horrible. (And I also heard the conversation Randy had that one conversation with Waternoose aka the "making up for lost time" conversation). Lots of people have never heard that conversation between Waternoose and Randall as Randall is pushing the Scream "canisters" down the tunnel. Waternoose sounds so irritated with Randall there, as if it's Randall's fault that things have been delayed. pitbulllady
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Post by conteremo on May 7, 2014 21:35:20 GMT -5
I know, it's really crazy because in some Pixar movies there are antagonists that did even worse things and the protagonists didn't try to kill them or hold a grudge or anything...Like with Hopper, for instance, or how Carl in Up seemed shocked by the bad guy's death (forgot his name). And in the Toy Story movies, the toys didn't hold a grudge against any of the antagonists. In Toy Story 3 Sid showed up as the garbage man, and the toys didn't seem bothered by him at all. And Lotso, bless his soul--despite the fact that he left them to be incinerated, the toys didn't try to go after him. Woody showed far more understanding for what Lotso was going through, that he had his heart broken and had trust issues, and resented being one toy out of a million that looks just like him, replaceable, etc. *I adore Lotso*
By comparison, what Mike and Sulley did to Randall just seems so over the top, and the fact that they're so oblivious to Randall's perspective (I mean, Woody was able to understand the more diabolical Lotso and tried to wake him up to what he was doing), just makes it worse. Seriously, making fun of Randall at every turn, beating him up, gloating about him not having his job anymore, and banishing him to a place where he could potentially be butchered and eaten? Wow. If that's never addressed realistically in a sequel, then they're wasting the potential for some depth for sure! As long as the protagonists' flaws are addressed I'd be okay, but I wouldn't be okay with canon making it out to be no big deal.
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Post by pitbulllady on May 7, 2014 21:48:22 GMT -5
That's the problem I have: Mike and Sulley are still being put up on a pedestal as heroes for what they did to Randall, when what THEY did was just as wrong as what HE did, if not worse. They DID have a choice, but he did not.
pitbulllady
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Post by randallsnape7 on May 8, 2014 1:51:16 GMT -5
ANOTHER important aspect is that the 'Monsters' films CLAIM to be about friendship. Just check out that end credits song "If I Didn't Have You", but it's practically a total sham.
No one realizes that Randall could be used in a powerful way to turn the tables on THEM. If Randall would be accepted as a true, inseparable friend by both Mike and Sulley, it would actually strengthen their OWN friendship with each other. They would have been faced with a seemingly insurmountable test (accepting and forgiving Randall), and each would find the strength to overcome that test. Without the friendship of Randall, it leaves the impression that Mike and Sulley are just a couple of conceited vigilantes. Heck, they were able to violate the rules and authorities at MU and get away with it, right? So (in their minds), who GIVES a flip about Randall? If he bothers us, HEY... let's just get rid of him!
Mr. Potato Head: "But, what if Andy starts playing with ME more, Woody, huh? YOU GONNA KNOCK ME OUT OF THE WINDOW, TOO?"
Hamm: "I don't think we should give him the chance..."
Sergant: "WHERE IS YOUR HONOR, DIRTBAG? YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE! YOU DON'T DESERVE TO..."
Let's examine what we have at the end of 'Monsters, Inc.': Mike and Sulley humiliate, torture, and then banish Randall, just so he can be tortured AGAIN. What does Randall learn from that? NOTHING. Also, does banishing Randall help Mike and Sulley grow up and mature as characters? NO. It merely allows them to gratify their thirst for revenge. Wouldn't it be a much richer story if Mike and Sulley were forced to face Randall again and have to deal with their own emotions toward him? Even if they don't WANT to? The ONLY way to balance the story is for Randall to confess to Mike, Sulley, or both how DEEPLY he yearned to make friends. It is possible that for Randall, going to college was ALL about making friends... and scaring was merely a secondary goal. Deep down inside, Randall has the potential of being a kinder, more gracious friend than Mike or Sulley, either one.
Mike, Sulley, and Randall are like 3 trains headed straight for each other... none of them can complete their journey without the other. Mike and Sulley NEED Randall, and Randall NEEDS Mike and Sulley. They must learn the lessons they can only learn from each other. If Randall was never intended to blossom as a tremendous, misunderstood character and anti-hero, than all of that screen time we saw of him in the first two films was essentially wasted. Randall cannot be written out by any justification or logic, now. On the contrary, Pixar has forced Randall Boggs into becoming one of the most complex and pivotal characters of the entire 'Monsters' saga, and quite possibly, all of Pixar's films. Randall, as a character, matters now, which is why he must have a significant and pivotal role in 'Monsters 3'.
Pixar needs to think this one over, folks!
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Post by luvrandall on May 9, 2014 8:59:39 GMT -5
I just watched that movie...well, up until the part where Randall gets banished and abused...I couldn't stop crying. I had to stop the movie and try to catch my breath. You know what I said when Fur Rug said "Looks like you're out of a job"? "Losing his job should be punishment enough, Sullivan!" I couldn't take the parts where he got hit by the bat by Boo and the door slamming on his fronds and all the other horrible stuff that I won't mention cause there's too much and I don't want to upset any of you or myself anymore than I already have. It was just too horrible. (And I also heard the conversation Randy had that one conversation with Waternoose aka the "making up for lost time" conversation). Lots of people have never heard that conversation between Waternoose and Randall as Randall is pushing the Scream "canisters" down the tunnel. Waternoose sounds so irritated with Randall there, as if it's Randall's fault that things have been delayed. pitbulllady Add that to the list of things of why I hate Waternoose.
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Post by randallsnape7 on May 9, 2015 13:08:26 GMT -5
Sullivan saying to Randall "Looks like you're out of a job." should REALLY come back to bite him in the butt. How would Sullivan feel if HE was out of a job? Not so funny when it happens to YOU, is it?"
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